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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2011, 04:29 
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Dr. Muhammad Saalih Ali Mustafa, in his book النسخ في القرآن الكريم مفهومه وتاريخه ودعاواه, page 40, quotes Muhammad Yoosuf Al-Bannoori from his book تتمة البيان في شيئ من علوم القرآن, pages 139-140, quoting Waliullah Dehlvi from his book الفوز الكبير في أصول التفسير, saying:

لا يكاد يوجد شيئ في القرآن المتلو منسوخا في الحكم بحيث لا يبقى حكمه في وجه من الوجوه أو محمل من المحامل، بل لا جرم يوجد حكمه مشروعا في مرتبة من المراتب، وحال من الأحوال، وزمان من الأزمان

Translation:
There is almost nothing in the recited Quran which is abrogated in ruling, such that its ruling does not remain in one aspect or another or one interpretation or another. In fact, the ruling remains at one level or another, one condition or another or one time or another.

Dr. Mustafa concludes from that, that Dehlvi in reality did not believe that there is any abrogation in the Quran at all. I'd conclude the same too; if the first ruling is not totally annulled, then it was not abrogated.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2011, 07:07 
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Linguistic wrote:
quoting Waliullah Dehlvi from his book الفوز الكبير في أصول التفسير, saying:

لا يكاد يوجد شيئ في القرآن المتلو منسوخا في الحكم بحيث لا يبقى حكمه في وجه من الوجوه أو محمل من المحامل، بل لا جرم يوجد حكمه مشروعا في مرتبة من المراتب، وحال من الأحوال، وزمان من الأزمان

Translation:
There is almost nothing in the recited Quran which is abrogated in ruling, such that its ruling does not remain in one aspect or another or one interpretation or another. In fact, the ruling remains at one level or another, one condition or another or one time or another.

Dr. Mustafa concludes from that, that Dehlvi in reality did not believe that there is any abrogation in the Quran at all. I'd conclude the same too; if the first ruling is not totally annulled, then it was not abrogated.

I really want this book! We definitely need to reconcile this passage with Waliullah's 5 abrogation cases. Maybe he used abrogation in a different linguistic sense and kept those cases in order not to be radical.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2011, 17:46 
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Dr. Husayn Nassaar, in his book الناسخ والمنسوخ في القرآن الكريم, pages 67-68, discusses the difference between النسيء والنسخ (deference and abrogation). That distinction was made a lot in the classic literature, because of two reasons: (a) Many scholars bundled the two together as abrogation, and (b) many scholars, including Sahaaba, recited verse 2:106 with the word ننسأها (We defer it) instead of ننسها (We cause it to be forgotten).

Nassaar writes that Az-Zarkashi made the distinction clear and said, "Most of the cases of abrogation, when verified, are cases of deference." Nassaar says that As-Suyooti agreed. As-Suyooti included contingencies in the definition of deference.

As-Suyooti gives the sword verse as an example of deference. He argues that the earlier ruling of pardon was contingent upon weakness and the latter ruling of fighting was because the contingency was no more. Nassaar agrees and so does Dr. Moosa Shaaheen!

I respectfully disagree on two fronts. First, a contingent ruling, by any other name, is contingent, not a deference. Because when the contingency comes back, so does the original ruling! Secondly, the license to fight was given to Muslims after they became eligible to fight back. It was not a Carte Blanche to fight. It did not abrogate orders to pardon or to co-exist with non-combatants.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2012, 19:13 
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On the opening page, page 5, of his book, الناسخ والمنسوخ في القرآن الكريم, Dr. Husayn Nassaar, summarizes "the importance of knowing about abrogation" by quoting three narrations without bothering to authenticate any of them.

Is it scholarly to cite for evidence something that someone may or may not have said?

His first narration is from Huzhayfa ibn Hasl Al-Yamaani saying, "Only one of three may give a ruling: One who knows the abrogating and the abrogated in the Quran, a leader who must, or a fool."

I tried to look for that narration but could not find it. And even if it is authentic, it is the opinion of Huzhayfa unless it can be proven that it traces back to the Prophet (PBUH).

The second narration Dr. Nassaar cites is the هلكت وأهلكت story attributed to Ali ibn Abi-Taalib, may God have been pleased with him. We've discussed this before many times.

The last narration is attributed to Ibn Abbaas, may God have been pleased with him, in which he interprets 2:269 to mean the knowledge, among other things, of abrogation in the Quran!

Again, I tried to find that narration and couldn't. And again, even if were authentic, it expresses an interpretation of one man who was not inspired by God.

So the "evidence" Dr. Nassaar opens his book with is either unknown or authentically weak. Is that any way to start a book? But, to be fair to him, he does not agree or disagree with the notion. In fact, he makes no conclusion one way or another as he finishes the book.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 23 Mar 2012, 04:26 
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Dr. Husayn Nassaar, in his book الناسخ والمنسوخ في القرآن الكريم, page 64, quotes Dr. Saabir Tu`ayma saying, (my translation),
Dr. Saabir Tu`ayma wrote:
Abrogation is not permissible except before the death of the Prophet (PBUH). It is not permissible that the Prophet (PBUH) leaves Quran recited then Muslims agree with consensus to drop it from recitation after him!

He continues,
Dr. Saabir Tu`ayma wrote:
The shape of the Book of God that the Prophet (PBUH) left is the final one.

It's a shame that something this obvious must be restated to people who should know it already.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2012, 07:20 
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Linguistic wrote:
So the "evidence" Dr. Nassaar opens his book with is either unknown or authentically weak. Is that any way to start a book? But, to be fair to him, he does not agree or disagree with the notion. In fact, he makes no conclusion one way or another as he finishes the book.

Not only on the subject of abrogation, but also on many other theological topics, the standard for intellect that seems to prevail is quite poor. This is a comment about analysis, logic, and scholarship regardless of what conclusions are reached.

Somehow, poor reasoning is not challenged in this culture. On the other hand, non-conforming statements, however substantiated they might be, are certain to be challenged (to say the least :)).

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 08 May 2012, 23:14 
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In many books on abrogation, classic and modern, the notion that abrogation is possible is presented as a basis for proving that abrogation may have happened. Several verses of the Quran have been quoted to support the notion that abrogation is possible, and we've shown them all here.

Except one, which I do not recall reading about in the literature! So, here I present it:


This verse is a much stronger evidence that abrogation in the Quran is possible, isn't it? In fact, the verse says that abrogation of the entire Quran is possible!

I don't know exactly why this verse has not quoted by scholars, but maybe because the next verse implies that such abrogation has not happened, because of the Grace of God,

Indeed, it is the Grace of God that He left us with a robust scripture in which are all teachings that we will ever need for this life and the life to come, without any confusion, ifs or buts.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2012, 09:53 
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Linguistic wrote:
In many books on abrogation, classic and modern, the notion that abrogation is possible is presented as a basis for proving that abrogation may have happened. Several verses of the Quran have been quoted to support the notion that abrogation is possible, and we've shown them all here.

Except one, which I do not recall reading about in the literature! So, here I present it:


This verse is a much stronger evidence that abrogation in the Quran is possible, isn't it? In fact, the verse says that abrogation of the entire Quran is possible!

I don't know exactly why this verse has not quoted by scholars, but maybe because the next verse implies that such abrogation has not happened, because of the Grace of God,


This is a great find for two reasons. It shows objectivity in finding evidence that on face value may support the abrogation doctrine. It also shows that the possibility in this case does not imply the actual occrrence, which is why the evidence is vacuous.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 12 May 2013, 21:45 
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In his book, مباحث في علوم القرآن, page 234, Dr. Mannaa` Al-Qattaan states that some scholars have confused many issues as abrogation. One category of such confusion is to regard as abrogation what was ordered for a reason and then the reason went away. He gives as an example the initial order to Muslims to endure persecution, because they were few and weak, then when they became many and strong they were permitted by God to fight to defend their faith.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2013, 14:19 
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Dr. Husayn Nassaar, in his book الناسخ والمنسوخ في القرآن الكريم, pages 6-7, cites what several scholars have said about abrogation and why it is so important to learn. Among those:

  • Ibn Hazm Al-Andalusi said that Ijtihaad (analysis) is not complete without knowledge of abrogation and that the biggest task of Ijtihaad is knowledge of transmittal [of narrations] (النقل) and that one of the benefits of the knowledge of transmittal is knowledge of the abrogated and the abrogator!

    I suppose what he means is that we know about abrogation because of narrations, which is something any analyst will have to study. And because we know about abrogation, we are now able to make a conclusion in our analysis.

    He adds that deduction from apparent meaning is easy, but the problem is deduction of hidden meaning and that cannot be done without knowing which issue came first.

  • Exegete Az-Zarkashi said that knowledge of abrogation is only necessary for exegesis, which all scholars have said is not permitted without knowledge of abrogation.

    I respectfully suggest that a person who believes that there are contradictions in the Quran that cannot be resolved without resorting to abrogation, is not qualified to write an exegesis.

  • Abdul-Qahhaar Daawood Al-`Aani said that the knowledge of abrogation is important because judicial decisions depend on it.

    Indeed they do, and the abrogation doctrine has resulted in injustice. Had to because it annulled rulings of God.

  • Dr. Sha`baan M. Ismaeel said that knowledge of abrogation is "a grand pillar in understanding Islam" especially when pieces of evidence contradict each other and can only be reconciled with abrogation.

    I'd tell him that the contradiction he sees is only perceived and is not real and it is reconciled by understanding a verse, not annulling it!

  • Dr. M. Ibrahim Al-Hifnaawi said that one of the reasons knowledge of abrogation is important is because it is so complex!

  • Dr. Faarooq Hamaada said that knowledge of abrogation is necessary for any exegete, analyst, judge, mufti or researcher. He said that many naive people who did not have the benefit of knowledge of abrogation thought that the Quran has contradictions, and the truth is that "they did not take the issue with seriousness and impartiality."

    So, he thinks that abrogation explains why the Quran seems to have contradictions! No, Sir. The Quran seems to have contradictions, not because one abrogates the other, but because analysts jumped to the abrogation explanation before properly understanding the verses.

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