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 Post subject: Verses 5:41-42
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2009, 05:08 
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Suggested translation1,2:


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1This translation may have been updated from the original suggested translation as a result of the discussions that follow.
2Click on the {verse number} of a translation to see other good translations of the verse.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 5:41-42
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2009, 03:53 
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Quote:
{5:41} O Messenger, let them not grieve you who hasten into disbelief of those who say, "We believe" with their mouths, but their hearts believe not, and from among the Jews. [They are] avid listeners to falsehood, listening to another people who have not come to you. They distort words beyond their [proper] usages, saying "If you are given this, take it; but if you are not given it, then beware." But he for whom God intends fitnah - never will you possess [power to do] for him a thing against God. Those are the ones for whom God does not intend to purify their hearts. For them in this world is disgrace, and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment.

This verse contains a pause pair, annotated by a pair of three-dot triangles. See the discussion about that in the Translation Issues forum. The above translation assumes a pause after the second punctuation. It does that by starting a new sentence with "They are avid listeners to falsehood." I do not like to make such assumptions. I'd rather translate the sentence without a punctuation that favors one pause over another so as to convey the two pause possibilities in the Arabic. The two pause possibilities are:

  1. of those who say, "We believe" with their mouths, but their hearts do not believe. And from among the Jews are avid listeners to falsehood,
  2. of those who say, "We believe" with their mouths, but their hearts do not believe, and from among the Jews. [They are] avid listeners to falsehood,

So I suggest,

{5:41} O Messenger, let them not grieve you who hasten into disbelief of those who say, "We believed" with their mouths, but their hearts did not believe, and from among those who came back apologizing (the Jews), avid listeners to untruth, avid listeners to another folk who have not come to you. They distort wording after its settings, saying "If you [all] are granted this, then take it; but if you are not granted it, then beware." But he for whom God wants to try - never will you possess [power to do] for him against God anything. Those are the ones for whom God did not want to purify their hearts. For them in [this] the nearest [life] is disgrace, and for them in the Hereafter is a great torment.

Quote:
{5:42} [They are] avid listeners to falsehood, devourers of [what is] unlawful. So if they come to you, [O Muhammad], judge between them or turn away from them. And if you turn away from them - never will they harm you at all. And if you judge, judge between them with justice. Indeed, God loves those who act justly.

I like Pickthall's translation of السحت best, "illicit gain." I suggest,

{5:42} Avid listeners to untruth, devourers of illicit gain. So if they came to you [with their disputes], then judge between them or turn aside from them. And if you turn aside from them - never will they harm you at all. And if you [chose to] judge, then judge between them with equity. Verily, God loves the equitable.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 5:41-42
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2009, 07:00 
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Joined: 05 May 2009, 00:16
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Linguistic wrote:
This verse contains a pause pair, annotated by a pair of three-dot triangles. See the discussion about that in the Translation Issues forum. The above translation assumes a pause after the second punctuation. It does that by starting a new sentence with "They are avid listeners to falsehood." I do not like to make such assumptions. I'd rather translate the sentence without a punctuation that favors one pause over another so as to convey the two pause possibilities in the Arabic. The two pause possibilities are:

  1. of those who say, "We believe" with their mouths, but their hearts do not believe. And from among the Jews are avid listeners to falsehood,
  2. of those who say, "We believe" with their mouths, but their hearts do not believe, and from among the Jews. [They are] avid listeners to falsehood,

So I suggest,

{5:41} O Messenger, let them not grieve you who hasten into disbelief of those who say, "We believed" with their mouths, but their hearts did not believe, and from among those who came back apologizing (the Jews), avid listeners to untruth, avid listeners to another folk who have not come to you. They distort wording after its settings, saying "If you [all] are granted this, then take it; but if you are not granted it, then beware." But he for whom God wants to try - never will you possess [power to do] for him against God anything. Those are the ones for whom God did not want to purify their hearts. For them in [this] the nearest [life] is disgrace, and for them in the Hereafter is a great torment.

I agree with the principle, and I like the implementation with the two commas.

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