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 Post subject: Re: Did 9:5 abrogate 124 verses?
PostPosted: 06 Jun 2010, 19:43 
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Two more. Will it ever end?


And


The latter was claimed by Ibn Hazm Al-Andalusi, Al-Qurtubi reported in his exegesis.

Who said what:
For:
Ibn Hazm Al-Andalusi,
Ibn Salaama (in his book الناسخ والمنسوخ في القرآن الكريم, page 88).

Against:
None.

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 Post subject: Re: Did 9:5 abrogate 124 verses?
PostPosted: 06 Jun 2010, 20:37 
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Ibn Hazm Al-Andalusi, Ibn Salaama and Al-Baarizi all said that

was abrogated by the sword verse. Ibn Al-Jawzi and Dr. Az-Zalmi reject the claim. And so does Dr. Mustafa Zayd.

Who said what:
For:
Ibn Hazm Al-Andalusi,
Ibn Salaama,
Ibn Al-Baarizi,
Aş-Şa`di (leaning).

Against:
Ibn Al-Jawzi,
Abu-Abdillah Shu`la,
Dr. Mustafa Zayd,
Dr. Az-Zalmi.

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 Post subject: Re: Did 9:5 abrogate 124 verses?
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2010, 01:33 
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Linguistic wrote:
Two more. Will it ever end?
...

Let me play along. So what exactly has been abrogated here? Are they saying that sovereignty does not belong to God on that day? He will not judge between them? Those who believe and do good are not going to Paradise? أستغفر الله العظيم

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 Post subject: Re: Did 9:5 abrogate 124 verses?
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2010, 18:28 
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In refuting the claim that

was abrogated by the sword verse, Dr. Az-Zalmi in his book التبيان لرفع غموض النسخ في القرآن, pages 352-353, makes a very important point (I translate):
Dr. Az-Zalmi wrote:
Those petty claims that do not deserve a reply except to make imitators understand that they all are based on exegesis that ties verses to the circumstances of their revelation. As if a verse applies only to the event that preceded its revelation and has no future role. Each verse of the Quran is a constitutional rule for every individual and every generation of the human family as long as there is life on earth.

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 Post subject: Re: Did 9:5 abrogate 124 verses?
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2010, 23:04 
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Linguistic wrote:
Dr. Az-Zalmi in his book التبيان لرفع غموض النسخ في القرآن, pages 352-353, makes a very important point (I translate):
Dr. Az-Zalmi wrote:
Those petty claims that do not deserve a reply except to make imitators understand that they all are based on exegesis that ties verses to the circumstances of their revelation. As if a verse applies only to the event that preceded its revelation and has no future role. Each verse of the Quran is a constitutional rule for every individual and every generation of the human family as long as there is life on earth.

Hear, hear. That's why I dislike the expression "reason for revelation" that is used in Arabic to denote "circumstances at the time of revelation."

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 Post subject: Re: Did 9:5 abrogate 124 verses?
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2010, 01:51 
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Pragmatic wrote:
Hear, hear. That's why I dislike the expression "reason for revelation" that is used in Arabic to denote "circumstances at the time of revelation."

To be fair, the Arabic word سبب is commonly translated as reason, but that's inaccurate. The word means an avenue that facilitates something. Consider the story of Zhul-Qarnayn which God relates to us in Chapter 18,

Or consider the story of Pharaoh, Haman and Moses as God relates it to us in Chapter 40,

So, when the scholars used the term أسباب النزول, they were referring to the events that lead to revelations. The name is therefore apt, but later generations have restricted the word to mean reason and by that they lost the original meaning of the word.

Rings a bell, doesn't it? That's what happened to the word naskh as well ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Did 9:5 abrogate 124 verses?
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2010, 16:04 
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According to Dr. Az-Zalmi, on page 376 of his book التبيان لرفع غموض النسخ في القرآن, Al-Baarizi adds

to the list of verses he claimed were abrogated by the sword verse. Az-Zalmi points out that nobody else made that claim and he of course rejects it.

What was abrogated? That God may end the life of the Prophet (PBUH), or that God will punish the prophet's enemies? Both have happened. Furthermore, God continued to punish the prophet's enemies long after the Prophet died, peace be upon him, and will punish them still in the Hereafter!

Who said what:
For:
Al-Baarizi (according to Dr. Az-Zalmi).

Against:
Dr. Az-Zalmi.

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 Post subject: Re: Did 9:5 abrogate 124 verses?
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2010, 16:23 
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Linguistic wrote:
Ibn Al-Jawzi reports that

is claimed by the majority of exegetes to have been abrogated.

In refuting this claim, Dr. Az-Zalmi in his book التبيان لرفع غموض النسخ في القرآن, pages 382-384, points out that the scholars could not agree on what abrogated it, when it was revealed, or what were the circumstances of its revelation! He asks: how can a certain verse of the Quran be claimed abrogated when the cause of abrogation is so uncertain?

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 Post subject: Re: Did 9:5 abrogate 124 verses?
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2010, 18:28 
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Another one Dr. Az-Zalmi reports and rejects is the claim that

was abrogated by the sword verse. The claim was made by Ibn Hazm Al-Andalusi, Ibn Salaama, and Ibn Al-Baarizi. Al-Khazraji adds Ibn Al`Arabi and Makki, and uncharacteristically rejects the claim! He says that the reason it's not abrogated is its circumstance of revelation. The Jews had asked the Prophet (PBUH) about the creation of heaven and earth and he told them. They said, "Right, but incomplete," meaning He rested on the seventh day. The Prophet (PBUH) got angry and was hurt by their word, so God revealed 50:39. How that refutes the claim escapes me. Besides, Chapter 50 was revealed in Mecca and I thought there were no Jews there, only in Medina.

An-Nahhaas quoted exegesis of this verse that when one feels depressed one seeks relief in prayer as the Prophet (PBUH) often did whenever something bothered him.

The reason it's not abrogated is what we mentioned a hundred times already: Enduring abuse does not preclude fighting back for self defense. The sword verse ended treaties with the polytheists and offered them two options: peaceful co-existence or war.

Who said what:
For:
Ibn Al`Arabi, Makki (according to Al-Khazraji),
Ibn Hazm Al-Andalusi,
Ibn Salaama,
Ibn Al-Baarizi.

Against:
An-Nahhaas (implied),
Al-Khazraji,
Dr. Mustafa Zayd,
Dr. Az-Zalmi.

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 Post subject: Re: Did 9:5 abrogate 124 verses?
PostPosted: 10 Jun 2010, 05:10 
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Dr. Az-Zalmi reports in his boon التبيان لرفع غموض النسخ في القرآن, page 192, that

was abrogated by the sword verse, quoting Ibn Al-Jawzi who did not name the claimant. Others, such as Ibn Salaama in his book الناسخ والمنسوخ في القرآن الكريم, page 44, said it was abrogated by the Jizya verse, 9:29.

Dr. Az-Zalmi of course refutes the claim and says Ar-Raazi and Aş-Şaawi do as well. He says that if 3:186 is abrogated then instead of Muslims acquiring the fine qualities of patience and awareness of God, they now acquire the ugly traits of complaint and recklessness. Besides, enduring does not preclude fighting when attacked, which, for the umpteenth time, is the subject of the sword verse.

Who said what:
For:
Ibn Salaama (who said the abrogating is 9:29).

Against:
Ar-Raazi and Aş-Şaawi (according to Dr. Az-Zalmi),
Al-Aloosi (implied, according to Al-Jabri),
Al-Jabri (in his book لا نسخ في القرآن...لماذا؟, page 106),
Dr. Mustafa Zayd,
Dr. Az-Zalmi.

Consequences:
Al-Jabri, in his book لا نسخ في القرآن...لماذا؟, pages 106-107, rejects this claim and says that rejecting it leads to fewer wars, longer peace and narrower region of fighting. Indeed, enduring insults and verbal attacks of Islamophobes and other enemies of Islam, who want to provoke Muslims or pick a fight with them, not only trains a Muslim's endurance, but also prevents wars before they erupt.

Al-Jabri points out that a few verses later, God gives license to fight, if the attacks progress from verbal to militant.

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