TheMostReadBook.org

An English translation of the Quran that is as close as possible to the Arabic sacred text
View active topics
  Verse(s):    
View unanswered posts





Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 5 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Did 40:7 abrogate 42:5?
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2010, 04:35 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 04 May 2009, 16:10
Posts: 4558
Location: USA
As-Suyooti reported that Makki has said that 40:7 abrogated 42:5, which, he said, is the only abrogation case of Meccan verses. As-Suyooti corrected him by giving the example of 73:20/73:2-4. While abrogation in the 40:7/42:5 case, if it can be proven, carries no consequence to the law as the two verses do not contain rulings, we still include it in the discussion because we do want to encompass all claims of abrogation of verses that have remained in the Quran. Here are the two verses in this case,

is claimed to have been abrogated by

To begin with, Chapter 42 is recognized to have been revealed after Chapter 40, so the abrogation claim is weakened by chronology. Besides, both verses are statements of fact, and thus cannot be abrogated. In addition, 40:7 does not say that the angels stopped "praying for those on earth." In other words, the angels may very well be praying for all people on earth but perhaps more for the believers. I do not see abrogation here for those reasons. God knows best.

Moreover, 40:7 speaks of special angels, those who carry the Throne and those around them. That is an elect group. It may be that this elect group can only pray for the believers and repenters, but the rest of the angels are permitted to pray for sinners and disbelievers too. With this apparent explanation, there is no contradiction and therefore no need to claim abrogation.

Another plausible explanation is that 42:5 includes believers and 40:7 does not exclude disbelievers, therefore there is no conflict to resolve between the two.

_________________
A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Did 40:7 abrogate 42:5?
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2010, 06:34 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 05 May 2009, 00:16
Posts: 1839
Location: USA
Linguistic wrote:
abrogation in the 40:7/42:5 case, if it can be proven, carries no consequence to the law as the two verses do not contain rulings

I picked this shortened quote since it raises the decisive point; Verse 42:5 is statement of fact and thus cannot be abrogated.

_________________
To translate is the best way to understand


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Did 40:7 abrogate 42:5?
PostPosted: 28 Feb 2010, 05:23 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 04 May 2009, 16:10
Posts: 4558
Location: USA
Ibn Al-Jawzi reports the same claim in his book نواسخ القرآن. He writes,

باب ذكر ما ادعي عليه النسخ في سورة حم عسق. ذكر الآية الأولى: قوله تعالى "ويستغفرون لمن في الأرض". زعم قوم منهم ابن منبه والسدي ومقاتل بن سليمان أنه منسوخة بقوله "ويستغفرون للذين آمنوا"، وهذا قبيح لأن الآيتين خبر والخبر لا ينسخ. ثم ليس بين الآيتين تضاد لأن استغفارهم استغفار خاص لا مدخل فيه إلا من اتبع الطريق المستقيم فلأولئك طلبوا الغفران والإعاذة من النيران وإدخال الجنان، واستغفارهم لمن في الأرض لا يخلوا من أمرين: إما أن يريدوا به الحلم عنهم والرزق لهم والتوفيق ليسلموا، وإما أن يريدوا به من في الأرض من المؤمنين، فيكون اللفظ عاما
والمعنى خاصا، وقد دل على تخصيص عمومه قوله "ويستغفرون للذين آمنوا"، والدليل الموجب يصرفه عن العموم إلى الخصوص أن الكافر لا يستحق أن يغفر له فعلى هذا البيان لا وجه للنسخ. وكذلك قال قتادة "ويستغفرون لمن في الأرض" قال للمؤمنين منهم. وقال أبو الحسين بن المنادي في الكلام مضمر تقديره لمن في الأرض من المؤمنين، وقال أبو جعفر النحاس يجوز أن يكون وهب ابن منبه أراد أن هذه الآية على نسخ تلك الآية لأنه لا فرق بينهما


He says that Ibn Munbih and As-Suddi said it was abrogated. Ibn Al-Jawzi refutes it with harsh words saying that both verses are statements of facts and therefore cannot be abrogated. He asserts that one verse is general and the other is specific.

He says Qataada agrees there is no abrogation and that 42:5 references the believers though it did not name them. So said Abul-Husayn ibn Al-Munaadi.

Abu-Ja`far An-Nahhaas said something very important! He said that it is possible that Ibn Munbih meant that the two verses are copies of each other. That is a linguistic meaning of "naskh" which ironically is the exact opposite of abrogation!

_________________
A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Did 40:7 abrogate 42:5?
PostPosted: 28 Feb 2010, 06:25 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 05 May 2009, 00:16
Posts: 1839
Location: USA
Linguistic wrote:
Abu-Ja`far An-Nahhaas said something very important! He said that it is possible that Ibn Munbih meant that the two verses are copies of each other. That is a linguistic meaning of "naskh" which ironically is the exact opposite of abrogation!

Very important. This is such a ridiculous abrogation claim that some explanation like that becomes plausible.

_________________
To translate is the best way to understand


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Who said what
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2010, 15:58 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 04 May 2009, 16:10
Posts: 4558
Location: USA
For:
Wahb ibn Munbih,
As-Suddi,
Muqaatil ibn Sulaymaan,
Ibn Salaama.

Against:
Qataada,
Abul-Husayn ibn Al-Munaadi,
Abu-Ja`far An-Nahhaas,
Makki and Ibn Al`Arabi (according to Al-Khazraji),
Ibn Al-Jawzi,
Abu-Abdillah Shu`la,
Ar-Raazi, Al-Aloosi, Al-Qurtubi (according to Az-Zalmi),
Dr. Mustafa Zayd,
Dr. Az-Zalmi,
Haani Taahir.

_________________
A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 5 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
It is currently 10 Jun 2026, 04:28

All times are UTC

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group