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 Post subject: Did 5:5 abrogate 6:121?
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2010, 04:29 
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Ibn Al-Jawzi reports that

was claimed abrogated by


He writes,

ذكر الآية الثانية عشرة: قوله تعالى "ولا تأكلوا مما لم يذكر اسم الله عليه". قد روى عن جماعة منهم الحسن وعكرمة أنهم قالوا نسخت بقوله "وطعام الذين أوتوا الكتاب حل لكم"، وهذا غلط لأنهم إن أرادوا النسخ حقيقة وليس هذا بنسخ، وإن أرادوا التخصيص وأنه خص بآية المائدة طعام أهل الكتاب فليس بصحيح لأن أهل الكتاب يذكرون الله على الذبيحة فيحمل أمرهم على ذلك، فإن تيقنا أنهم تركوا ذكره جاز أن يكون عن نسيان والنسيان لا يمنع الحل، فإن تركوا لا عن نسيان لا يجز الأكل فلا وجه للنسخ أصلا. ومن قال من المفسرين إن المراد بها لم يذكر اسم الله على المبتة فقد خص عاما والقول بالعموم أصح. وعلى القول الشافعي هذه الآية محكمة لأن إما أن يراد بها عنده الميتة أو يكون نهى كراهية


The arguments above revolve around whether people of the Book mention the name of God or not before they slaughter animals, or whether the reference here is to dead animals. Ibn Al-Jawzi concludes it's not abrogated and says Ash-Shaffi`i said so too. Of those who said it was abrogated were Al-Hasan and Ikrima.

That discussion is actually irrelevant, because as we said in the 5:5/2:221 case, God makes an exception for the People of the Book: We can eat the meat they slaughter regardless of whether they mention the name of God or leave it out or whatever. Verse 5:5 is an addendum to the ruling in 6:121, not a cancellation.

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 Post subject: Who said what
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2010, 04:30 
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For:
Al-Hasan (in one report),
Ikrima,
`Ataa' and Abu-Abdillah Mak-hool Ad-Dimashqi (according to Al-Khazraji),
Ibn Hazm Al-Andalusi,
Ibn Salaama.

Against:
Al-Hasan (in another report, per An-Nahhaas and Makki, said Al-Khazaraji),
Ibn Seereen and Ash-Sha`bi (according to Al-Khazraji),
Sa`eed ibn Jabeer, An-Nakh`i,
Maalik,
Ibn Al-Jawzi,
Ash-Shaafi`i,
Dr. Mustafa Zayd,
Dr. Az-Zalmi,
Dr. Ali Jum`a.

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 Post subject: Re: Did 5:5 abrogate 6:121?
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2010, 04:36 
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This is a meritorious case, for two reasons. Reasonable people can perceive a conflict, and "Today" in 5:5 can be taken by some as declaration of abrogation (like "Now" in 8:66). The fact that it is an exception, and that meat improperly slaughtered from those other than People of the Book is still not allowed precludes the possibility of abrogation (annulment of 6:121). BTW, I disagree with the argument that People of the Book who deliberately don't mention God's name at the slaughter time are not covered. The assumption that they normally do is not based on reality IMHO.

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 Post subject: Re: Did 5:5 abrogate 6:121?
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 03:43 
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Pragmatic wrote:
BTW, I disagree with the argument that People of the Book who deliberately don't mention God's name at the slaughter time are not covered. The assumption that they normally do is not based on reality IMHO.

Exactly. 6:121 does not say "other than God's name is mentioned," it says, "God's name is not mentioned." That poses a dilemma, since, like you said, most butchers and slaughter houses do not mention any name when they slaughter animals. So, does 6:121 apply here or not? I say it applies, unless further elaboration is given. That further elaboration is 5:5, which allows it only if it is done by the People of the Book.

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