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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2010, 16:32 
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Linguistic wrote:
How about adding a post to each topic of an abrogation case, called "Who said what" and listing in it the names of the scholars reported to have taken what position. And replies to that post would either add names, or dispute that they took those positions (based on other reports). I'll maintain those posts, insha-Allah, based on replies to them.

Excellent idea!

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2010, 09:00 
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As mentioned in another post, the late Sheikh Muhammad Ash-Sha`raawi agrees with the opinion that there are abrogated verses in the text of the Quran. He elaborates on this in his interpretation of the abrogation verse تفسير الشعراوي من الآية 106 الى الآية 115 من سورة البقرة. I summarized and commented on his opinion in this post in the "Interpretation of 2:106" thread since his opinion is centered around verse 2:106.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 25 Jan 2010, 23:04 
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Pragmatic wrote:
In fact, the minority opinion was almost always summarily dismissed without mentioning whose opinion it was, sometimes with blatant accusations that the opinion was an outright violation of religion. A notable exception is on page 7 (of the Internet copy) of قلائد المرجان في بيان الناسخ والمنسوخ في القرآن لمرعي بن يوسف الكرمي where it mentions (my translation, I was unable to cut and paste the original):

"A branch of Sufis and a group of originalists like Abu-Muslim Al-Asfahani forbade the license to abrogate in the Quran, and affirmed the abrogation of legislations"

In his thesis, "Tafseer Al-Asfahaani", Dr. Khidhr M. Nabha confirms what you said. He says that Abu-Muslim Al-Asfahaani rejected the notion of abrogation in the Quran entirely. He was an exegetist held in high regard for his thorough knowledge of all the disciplines of the Quran and the Arabic language and for his intellect and analytical ability, but was controversial because he tended to disagree with the consensus and with the majority of exegetists.

His interpretation of 2:106 is simple: It answers the Jews who claimed that nothing has abrogated the Torah or could. The verse affirms that the Quran abrogated the Torah, but that's all. Here is what Dr. Nabha reports, quoting Ar-Raazi from his exegesis, "Majma` Al-Bayaan",

الوجه الأول: أنه سبحانه لما عاب اليهود ورد عليهم ماراموا به الطعن في أمر نبينا عليه وآله السلام، وكان مما طعنوا فيه أنه يقول بطعن كل شريعة تقدمت شريعته، فبين الله سبحانه جواز ذلك ردا عليهم.
إن المراد من الآيات المنسوخة هي الشرائع التي في الكتب القديمة من التوراة والإنجيل كالسبت والصلاة إلى المشرق والمغرب مما وضعه الله عنا وتعبدنا بغيره، فإن اليهود والنصارى كانوا يقولون: لا تؤمنوا إلا لمن تبع دينكم، فأبطل الله عليهم ذلك بهذه الآية.
الوجه الثاني: المراد من النسخ نقله من اللوح المحفوظ وتحويله عنه إلى سائر الكتب وهو كما يقال: نسخت الكتاب.
الوجه الثالث: أنا بينا أن هذه الآية لاتدل على وقوع النسخ بل على أنه لو وقع النسخ لوقع إلى ماهو خير منه

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 26 Jan 2010, 04:03 
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Linguistic wrote:
هذه الآية لاتدل على وقوع النسخ بل على أنه لو وقع النسخ لوقع إلى ماهو خير منه

Translation: "This verse does not indicate that abrogation has taken place, but that if abrogation has taken place then something better would come about."

Finally, we find someone who makes your observation about the conditional aspect of 2:106 explicit.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 26 Jan 2010, 04:35 
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Pragmatic wrote:
Translation: "This verse does not indicate that abrogation has taken place, but that if abrogation has taken place then something better would come about."

Finally, we find someone who makes your observation about the conditional aspect of 2:106 explicit.

Yeah. Unfortunately, his conclusion is skipped by the scholars because it goes against the consensus. Nobody could refute his arguments, they only said that his opinions go against the majority.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2010, 21:37 
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Interesting remark in the Wikipedia abrogation page (cited in this post) that needs to be researched as it would have significant impact on how strong the consensus about abrogation is in reality:

Quote:
Over the last century, there have come to be serious objections to the very idea of Naskh within the Muslim community; returning to a dissenting attitude from early Muslim history (e.g., Abu Muslim Al-Asfahani 948-1038 C.E), many modern scholars now reject it outright.

Disclaimer: I am not using Wikipedia, or any unauthenticated or non-Muslim reference for that matter, as a reliable source. Rather, I use them as pointers to relevant issues that are yet to be authenticated.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2010, 06:15 
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I wanted to post my opinion that the hostile attitude towards those who disagreed with the abrogation doctrine, which can be seen in the abusive language openly used against them in the theological literature, may have inhibited those who had doubts about abrogation from pursuing their ideas or expressing their opinions. The reason this is relevant to the merits of the case here is that such bias of embracing those who agree and shunning those who disagree could result in a self-fulfilling 'consensus'.

I found a concrete example from one of the 20th century scholars who wrote an elaborate reference about abrogation. On page 18 of Part 1 of this reference, while he describes the pressures on him as he investigates a centuries-old doctrine, he described one of the pressures he faced referring to Al-Azhar University which is a traditional theological institution, saying (translated):

Quote:
... angering some people in Al-Azhar if I differ with the old, the way they understand the old, and the way they imagine what differs means.

Mind you, the reference he wrote was pro-abrogation, just more careful about it. Imagine how much more concerned he would have been if his conclusion was anti-abrogation. I thought this example was revealing of the kind of peer pressure for conformity that the scholars may face in the theological community.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 31 Jan 2010, 19:33 
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Sayyed Qotb is reported to believe that there are no abrogated verses in the text of the Quran. His interpretation of verse 2:106 and of verse 16:101 show that he believes that verses could have been abrogated, but that the abrogated verses would be gone from the text.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2010, 08:40 
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Abu-Bakr Al-Jassas الجصاص is reported by more than one source as an influential figure or perhaps the key figure in establishing the abrogation doctrine. Details are in this post, but I thought I would include a pointer here given the subject matter of this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2010, 06:58 
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Pragmatic wrote:
Finally, we find someone who makes your observation about the conditional aspect of 2:106 explicit.

Abul-Fakhr Ar-Raazi also confirms it. He says this in his exegesis, "At-Tafseer Al-Kabeer",

واعلم أنا بعد أن قررنا هذه الجملة في كتاب المحصول في أصول الفقه تمسكنا في وقوع النسخ بقوله تعالى: "ما ننسخ من آية أو ننسها نأت بخير منها أو مثلها"، والاستدلال به أيضا ضعيف؛ لأن "ما" ههنا تفيد الشرط والجزاء، وكما أن قولك: ومن جاءك فأكرمه - لا يدل على حصول المجيء، بل على أنه متى جاء وجب الإكرام، فكذا هذه الآية لا تدل على حصول النسخ، بل على أنه متى حصل النسخ وجب أن يأتي بما هو خير منه، فالأقوى أن نعول في الإثبات على قوله تعالى: "وإذا بدلنا آية مكان آية" (النحل: 101) وقوله: "يمحو الله ما يشاء ويثبت وعنده أم الكتاب" (الرعد: 39) والله تعالى أعلم

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