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 Post subject: Verses 72:19-23
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2009, 07:36 
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Suggested translation1,2:


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1This translation may have been updated from the original suggested translation as a result of the discussions that follow.
2Click on the {verse number} of a translation to see other good translations of the verse.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 72:19-23
PostPosted: 24 Dec 2009, 05:38 
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Quote:
{72:19} And that when the Servant of God stood up supplicating Him, they almost became about him a compacted mass."

I suggest,
{72:19} And that when the worshiper of God stood up supplicating Him, they were almost on him a dense crowd.

Quote:
{72:20} Say, [O Muhammad], "I only invoke my Lord and do not associate with Him anyone."

I suggest,
{72:20} Say, "Verily, I only supplicate my Lord and do not associate with Him anyone [in worship]."

Quote:
{72:21} Say, "Indeed, I do not possess for you [the power of] harm or right direction."

I suggest,
{72:21} Say, "Verily, I do not control for you harm nor forthrightness."

Quote:
{72:22} Say, "Indeed, there will never protect me from God anyone [if I should disobey], nor will I find in other than Him a refuge.

I suggest,
{72:22} Say, "Verily, never will harbor me from God anyone, nor will I find other than Him a hideaway."

Quote:
{72:23} But [I have for you] only notification from God, and His messages." And whoever disobeys God and His Messenger - then indeed, for him is the fire of Hell; they will abide therein forever.

I suggest,
{72:23} "Except a proclamation from God, and His messages. And whoever disobeys God and His Messenger - then, verily, for him is the fire of Gehenna (Hell), lasting in it forever."

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 72:19-23
PostPosted: 25 Dec 2009, 07:35 
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Most of my remarks here are about the order of the words. I am applying the rule that a natural order of the words in Arabic should be translated into a natural order of the words in English, even if it is a different order between the two languages.

Linguistic wrote:
{72:19} And that when the worshiper of God stood up supplicating Him, they were almost on him a dense crowd.

I suggest
{72:19} And that when the worshiper of God stood up supplicating Him, they were almost a dense crowd on him.

Quote:
{72:23} Say, "Verily, never will harbor me from God anyone, nor will I find other than Him a hideaway."

I suggest
{72:23} Say, "Verily, no one will protect me from God, nor will I find a refuge beneath Him."

BTW, I don't see why "never" was used.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 72:19-23
PostPosted: 28 Dec 2009, 03:21 
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Pragmatic wrote:
Most of my remarks here are about the order of the words. I am applying the rule that a natural order of the words in Arabic should be translated into a natural order of the words in English, even if it is a different order between the two languages.

My criteria for this is that I, whenever possible, will want to echo the word order of the Arabic, provided that three conditions are met:
  1. The English sentence is grammatically correct,
  2. The English sentence is unambiguous, and
  3. The English sentence is not bad prose.

Quote:
I suggest
{72:19} And that when the worshiper of God stood up supplicating Him, they were almost a dense crowd on him.

Applying my criteria above, my suggestion meets them, so I prefer it, i.e.,
{72:19} And that when the worshiper of God stood up supplicating Him, they were almost on him a dense crowd.

Quote:
I suggest
{72:23} Say, "Verily, no one will protect me from God, nor will I find a refuge beneath Him."

BTW, I don't see why "never" was used.

"Never" perfectly translates لن, but your suggestion is very good but it has two problems:

ملتحد does not mean refuge; it means a hiding place. That's why the grave is called لحد and
من دون does not mean "beneath," it means "away from." or "other than." It is دون that means "beneath."

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 72:19-23
PostPosted: 28 Dec 2009, 07:31 
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Linguistic wrote:
Quote:
I suggest
{72:23} Say, "Verily, no one will protect me from God, nor will I find a refuge beneath Him."

BTW, I don't see why "never" was used.

"Never" perfectly translates لن, but your suggestion is very good but it has two problems:

ملتحد does not mean refuge; it means a hiding place. That's why the grave is called لحد and
من دون does not mean "beneath," it means "away from." It is دون that means "beneath."

Agree with دون versus من دون. I would save "never" to when "أبدا" is used. There has to be some Arabic expression for a simple "will not" and I think "لن" would be that.

How about "shelter" for ملتحد?

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 72:19-23
PostPosted: 28 Dec 2009, 16:27 
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Pragmatic wrote:
Agree with دون versus من دون. I would save "never" to when "أبدا" is used. There has to be some Arabic expression for a simple "will not" and I think "لن" would be that.

How a bout "shelter" for ملتحد?

I like "shelter." I can't remember if I used it before to translate another word. How about "hideout"?

{72:23} Say, "Verily, never will harbor me from God anyone, nor will I find away from Him a hideout."

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