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 Post subject: Verses 5:30-32
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2009, 05:09 
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Suggested translation1,2:


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1This translation may have been updated from the original suggested translation as a result of the discussions that follow.
2Click on the {verse number} of a translation to see other good translations of the verse.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 5:30-32
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2009, 14:56 
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Quote:
{5:30} And his soul permitted to him the murder of his brother, so he killed him and became among the losers.

I suggest,
{5:30} Then his soul made amenable to him the murder of his brother, so he killed him thus became among the losers.

Quote:
{5:31} Then God sent a crow searching in the ground to show him how to hide the disgrace of his brother. He said, "O woe to me! Have I failed to be like this crow and hide the body of my brother?" And he became of the regretful.

I suggest,
{5:31} Then God sent off a crow searching in the ground to show him (Cain) how to hide the foul [body] of his brother. He said, "O woe to me! Have I been unable to be like this crow so that I may hide the foul [body] of my brother?" Thus he became among the regretful.

It is interesting that all four of the alternative translations translated غرابا as "raven." The above quoted translation chose "crow" instead and I concur. Crows are about half the size of ravens, hence more of a lesson to Cain of his inferiority. ;)

Quote:
{5:32} Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.

I'd translate the italicized word as "excessive."

I suggest,
{5:32} Because of that, We wrote (decreed) upon the Children of Israel that whoever has killed a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - then it is as if he had killed mankind entirely. And whoever has revived it - then it is as if he had revived mankind entirely. And surely already have come to them our messengers with clear evidences. Then verily, many of them after that, in the land, surely are excessive.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 5:30-32
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2009, 07:23 
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Linguistic wrote:
Quote:
{5:31} Then God sent a crow searching in the ground to show him how to hide the disgrace of his brother. He said, "O woe to me! Have I failed to be like this crow and hide the body of my brother?" And he became of the regretful.

Two translations are offered above for the same word, سوأة and both are wrong, IMHO. The word quite simply means private part. It is a metaphor for what must not be shown. I suggest,
[{5:31} Then God sent off a crow searching in the ground to show him (Cain) how to hide the foul [body] of his brother. He said, "O woe to me! Have I been unable to be like this crow so that I may hide the foul [body] of my brother?" Thus he became among the regretful.

I would say "cover" instead of "hide." My reason is the following, "cover the exposed body" conveys the meaning of hiding the private parts, while "hide the exposed body" does not. In other words, I am choosing the verb to make the "exposed body" part convey the intended meaning.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 5:30-32
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2009, 19:04 
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Pragmatic wrote:
I would say "cover" instead of "hide." My reason is the following, "cover the exposed body" conveys the meaning of hiding the private parts, while "hide the exposed body" does not. In other words, I am choosing the verb to make the "exposed body" part convey the intended meaning.

"Cover" is a valid translation, but linguistically is not as accurate as "hide." The verb وارى means to put behind one so that it is not seen by others. The preposition وراء (behind) is derived from it. The difference between "cover" and "hide" is that "cover" involves contact while "hide" does not necessarily involve contact.

As for your point about hinting at private parts, I draw your attention that it is only an interpretation. The word the verse uses, سوأة means "displeasing". That could be referring to the sight of a dead body. There is no reason to conclude that the body of Abel was naked when Cain learned how to bury it.

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