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 Post subject: Verses 4:160-162
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2009, 05:15 
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Suggested translation1,2:


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1This translation may have been updated from the original suggested translation as a result of the discussions that follow.
2Click on the {verse number} of a translation to see other good translations of the verse.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 4:160-162
PostPosted: 21 Sep 2009, 15:07 
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Quote:
{4:162} But those firm in knowledge among them and the believers believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you. And the establishers of prayer [especially] and the givers of zakah and the believers in God and the Last Day - those We will give a great reward.

This verse is another example of using the "praise style" أسلوب المدح in the middle of a sentence. In this verse, it's the "establishers of prayer" phrase. The translators caught this style when they interjected "especially," but I'd rather indicate praise somehow, so I suggest,
{4:162} But those firm in knowledge among them and the believers believe in what has been sent down to you, [O Muhammad,] and what was sent down before you. And [how about] the establishers of prayer and the alms giving and the believers in God and the Last Day - those We will give a great reward.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 4:160-162
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2009, 00:41 
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Linguistic wrote:
This verse is another example of using the "praise style" أسلوب المدح in the middle of a sentence. In this verse, it's the "establishers of prayer" phrase. The translators caught this style when they interjected "especially," but I'd rather indicate praise somehow

Parsing this verse is tricky because of the conflict in conjugation between "the establishers of prayers" (mansoob or majroor) and the "providers of alms" (marfoo'a). For the "the establishers of prayers", it could be "praise style" أسلوب المدح and it could conceivably be "oath style." One interpretation could be that the change of conjugation is just to draw attention, so emphasis would be the best translation.

I think the different scenarios should be discussed, and then the criterion for choosing a translation would be to take the most "neutral" version.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 4:160-162
PostPosted: 23 Sep 2009, 03:46 
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While the possibility exists that والمقيمين الصلاة is an oath construct, I think it's a very unlikely probability. I do not recall any oaths made in the Quran in the middle of a sentence; always in its beginning. Can you think of any?

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 4:160-162
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2009, 18:45 
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Linguistic wrote:
While the possibility exists that والمقيمين الصلاة is an oath construct, I think it's a very unlikely probability. I do not recall any oaths made in the Quran in the middle of a sentence; always in its beginning. Can you think of any?

I agree that it is an unlikely interpretation. What I am advocating is picking a translation that does not favor one interpretation or another, if that's at all possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 4:160-162
PostPosted: 30 Mar 2014, 20:03 
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OK, I suggest,

{4:160} Therefore, because of wrongdoing of those who came back apologizing (the Jews), We forbade to them [some] good things which had been allowed for them, and for their shunning away from the way of God much.

{4:161} And [for] their taking of usury while they had been forbidden from it, and their consuming of the properties of the people with spuriousness. And we have readied for the disbelievers among them a painful torment.

{4:162} But the steeping in knowledge among them and the believers believe in what has been sent down to you [, O Muhammad,] and what was sent down before you. And [how about] the ones establishing prayer. And the alms giving and the believers in God and the Final Day. Those - We will soon grant them a great reward.

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