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 Post subject: Verses 3:37-41
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2009, 07:54 
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Suggested translation1,2:


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1This translation may have been updated from the original suggested translation as a result of the discussions that follow.
2Click on the {verse number} of a translation to see other good translations of the verse.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 3:37-41
PostPosted: 27 Aug 2009, 16:45 
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Quote:
{3:37} So her Lord accepted her with good acceptance and caused her to grow in a good manner and put her in the care of Zechariah. Every time Zechariah entered upon her in the prayer chamber, he found with her provision. He said, "O Mary, from where is this [coming] to you?" She said, "It is from God. Indeed, God provides for whom He wills without account."

{3:38} At that, Zechariah called upon his Lord, saying, "My Lord, grant me from Yourself a good offspring. Indeed, You are the Hearer of supplication."

Excellent translation. I would offer this,
{3:37} So her Lord accepted her, a beautiful acceptance, and made her grow a lovely growth, and had Zechariah foster her. Whenever Zechariah entered upon her in the prayer chamber, he found with her provision. He said, "O Mary, from where is this [coming] to you?" She said, "It is from God. Verily, God provides whom He wills without account."

{3:38} Over there called Zechariah upon his Lord. He said, "Lord, bestow upon me from Your Own a good offspring. Verily, You are the keen Hearer of supplication."

Quote:
{3:39} So the angels called him while he was standing in prayer in the chamber, "Indeed, God gives you good tidings of John, confirming a word from God and [who will be] honorable, abstaining [from women], and a prophet from among the righteous."

All four of the alternative translations translated حصورا as chaste. That's the right translation. "Abstaining from women" suggests that he would never even marry and that's not the meaning of the word. "Chaste", on the other hand, does not rule that out.

I suggest,
{3:39} So the angels called him while he was standing up praying in the chamber, "Verily, God heralds to you the glad tidings of Yahya (John), confirming of a word from God and [who will be] a dignitary, chaste, and a prophet from among the righteous."

Quote:
{3:40} He said, "My Lord, how will I have a boy when I have reached old age and my wife is barren?" The angel said, "Such is God; He does what He wills."

"Such is God" is a very interesting read of the Arabic كذلك but the word actually means "[just] like that." Notice the vocalization of the last letter, كَ, which indicates that it references Zechariah. To understand that better, consider the vocalization of the same letter in,

There it indicates that the reference is to Mary. So the proper translation in the current verse should be something like, "[For you, just] like that."

I suggest,
{3:40} He said, "Lord, how may be for me a boy when has reached me old age and my wife is barren?" The angel said, "[Just] like that for you; God does what He wills."

Quote:
{3:41} He said, "My Lord, make for me a sign." He Said, "Your sign is that you will not [be able to] speak to the people for three days except by gesture. And remember your Lord much and exalt [Him with praise] in the evening and the morning."

I suggest,
{3:41} He said, "Lord, set up for me a sign." He Said, "Your sign is that you shall not speak to the people for three days except by gesture. And remember your Lord much and sanctify [Him] by the evening and the daybreak."

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 3:37-41
PostPosted: 27 Aug 2009, 21:39 
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Linguistic wrote:
Quote:
{3:40} He said, "My Lord, how will I have a boy when I have reached old age and my wife is barren?" The angel said, "Such is God; He does what He wills."

"Such is God" is a very interesting read of the Arabic كذلك but the word actually means "[just] like that." Notice the vocalization of the last letter, كَ, which indicates that it references Zechariah. To understand that better, consider the vocalization of the same letter in,

There it indicates that the reference is to Mary. So the proper translation in the current verse should be something like, "[For you, just] like that."

I'll go out on a limp here because I don't quite understand the argument. They interpreted "Kathalika Allahu" (such is God) as a sentence by itself followed by "He does what He wills." The other interpretation is to treat "Kathalik" ([just] like that) as a stand alone, followed by "God does what He wills." What I don't understand is where the vocalization (fatha or kasra) comes in as far as resolving the two interpretation. Are you saying that the vocalization implies gender reference as in "Just like Zechariah" versus "Just like Mary"?

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 3:37-41
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2009, 00:41 
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Pragmatic wrote:
I'll go out on a limb here because I don't quite understand the argument. They interpreted "Kathalika Allahu" (such is God) as a sentence by itself followed by "He does what He wills." The other interpretation is to treat "Kathalik" ([just] like that) as a stand alone, followed by "God does what He wills." What I don't understand is where the vocalization (fatha or kasra) comes in as far as resolving the two interpretations. Are you saying that the vocalization implies gender reference as in "Just like Zechariah" versus "Just like Mary"?

No. What I'm saying is that the vocalization indicates the gender of the addressed. That is, in this verse it addresses Zechariah and in 3:47 it addresses Mary. So, we know that it must mean "Like that it is for you."

Thus whether you pause at the word or you don't, the meaning is, "Like that it is for you. God does what He wills." I only emphasized the vocalization so that it won't be lost in the translation. I have no problem with the translation "Such is God." Just would like to add "for you."

You can see this further in,

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 3:37-41
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2009, 09:30 
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Linguistic wrote:
What I'm saying is that the vocalization indicates the gender of the addressed.

My problem may be that I am influenced by the colloquial use of the word, which doesn't have an addressee in it. Because of this influence, I have to recuse myself since my intuition in this case is contaminated with something that is not part of the formal Arabic language.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 3:37-41
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2009, 14:04 
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Maybe this will help,

Here what follows كذلك is a sentence, not a subject or object. So, this one may be translated, "He said, 'That's how it is for you. Your Lord said it is for Me easy...' "

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