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 Post subject: Verses 2:11-15
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2009, 08:39 
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Suggested translation1,2:


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1This translation may have been updated from the original suggested translation as a result of the discussions that follow.
2Click on the {verse number} of a translation to see other good translations of the verse.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 2:11-15
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2009, 18:45 
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مُستَفعِلٌ مُستَفعِلُ = when they are told/ not to corrupt/

{2:11} When they are told not to corrupt in Earth they say we're reformers.
{2:12} Indeed they are the corruptors, although they do not feel a thing.
{2:13} And when they're told: "Subscribe to faith as people have." They say: "Shall we subscribe to faith as fools have done?" They are the fools, and they don't know.
{2:14} And when they meet people of faith they say we also share your faith, then when alone with their demons, they say: "Of course, we are with you; we make a mockery [of faith]."
{2:15} God makes a mockery of them, and leaves them in their transgression to blindly wander to and fro.


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 Post subject: Re: Verses 2:11-15
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2009, 06:54 
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Poetic wrote:
{2:12} Indeed they are the corruptors, although they do not feel a thing.
{2:13} And when they're told: "Subscribe to faith as people have." They say: "Shall we subscribe to faith as fools have done?" They are the fools, and they don't know.

Just one remark about the translation of ala. You chose "indeed" in 2:12 and bypassed it in 2:13. In the original translation, they use "Unquestionably":
Quote:
{2:12} Unquestionably, it is they who are the corrupters, but they perceive [it] not.
{2:13} And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know [it] not.

which I am not very happy with. Any suggestions for a more compelling translation of ala?

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 2:11-15
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2009, 14:43 
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Quote:
Any suggestions for a more compelling translation of ala?


ألا is simply an affirmation of the opposite. A literal translation "word for word" would be "Instead" or "on the contrary." So, I suppose that you'd be happier with

{2:12} On the contrary, they're the corruptors, although they don't feel a thing.
{2:13} And when they're told: "Subscribe to faith as people have." They say: "Shall we subscribe to faith as fools have done?" On the contrary, they're the fools, and they don't know.


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 Post subject: Re: Verses 2:11-15
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2009, 17:12 
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Poetic wrote:
So, I suppose that you'd be happier with

{2:12} On the contrary, they're the corruptors, although they don't feel a thing.
{2:13} And when they're told: "Subscribe to faith as people have." They say: "Shall we subscribe to faith as fools have done?" On the contrary, they're the fools, and they don't know.

I like the choice of "on the contrary."

I'd make a slight change as follows:
{2:12} On the contrary, they are the corruptors, although they do not feel.
{2:13} And when it is said to them, "Subscribe to faith as people have," they say, "Shall we subscribe to faith as fools have done?" On the contrary, they are the fools but they do not know.

I tend to avoid adding words that aren't in the source. While "do not feel a thing" is a correct translation, it attempts to elaborate on a metaphor. We all know that the rejectors do feel. The metaphor God uses is to liken them to those who have no feeling at all. Faith is attained with the mind and the heart. That's why God often blames the rejectors for not reflecting on His signs. That's the mind component of faith. He also blames them for closing their hearts. That's the feeling component of faith.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 2:11-15
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2009, 22:43 
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Linguistic wrote:
Poetic wrote:
So, I suppose that you'd be happier with

{2:12} On the contrary, they're the corruptors, although they don't feel a thing.
{2:13} And when they're told: "Subscribe to faith as people have." They say: "Shall we subscribe to faith as fools have done?" On the contrary, they're the fools, and they don't know.

I like the choice of "on the contrary."

I second that.

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 Post subject: Suggested translation
PostPosted: 27 Feb 2010, 19:49 
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{2:11} And when it is said to them, "Do not corrupt in the earth," they say, "We are but reformers."

{2:12} On the contrary, they are the corrupting, although they do not sense [it]..

{2:13} And when it is said to them, "Believe as people have believed," they say, "Shall we believe as fools have believed?" On the contrary, they are the fools but they do not know.

{2:14} And when they meet those who have believed, they say, "We believe"; but when they are alone with their evil ones, they say, "Indeed, we are with you; we were only mockers."

{2:15} [But] God mocks them and prolongs them in their transgression [while] they wander blindly.

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