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 Post subject: Verses 17:4-7
PostPosted: 06 Jun 2009, 02:52 
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Suggested translation1,2:


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1This translation may have been updated from the original suggested translation as a result of the discussions that follow.
2Click on the {verse number} of a translation to see other good translations of the verse.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 17:4-7
PostPosted: 19 Aug 2010, 14:09 
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Quote:
{17:4} And We conveyed to the Children of Israel in the Scripture that, "You will surely cause corruption on the earth twice, and you will surely reach [a degree of] great haughtiness."

I suggest,
{17:4} And We decreed to the Children of Israel in the Book [that], "You will surely corrupt in the land twice, and you will surely rise a big rise."

Quote:
{17:5} So when the [time of] promise came for the first of them, We sent against you servants of Ours - those of great military might, and they probed [even] into the homes, and it was a promise fulfilled.

Excellent translation. However, we only know that this prediction came true from the epilogue of the verse. Therefore, it's not correct to translate it as if it has already happened until the epilogue so states. I suggest,

{17:5} So when comes the [time of] promise of the first of them, We would send against you worshipers of Ours, possessing tough military might, and they would probe [even] into the homes, and it was a promise fulfilled.

In fact, the language of the epilogue does not decisively tell us that this prediction came true, since مفعولا can easily mean "certain to be done." Historians, however, have all but agreed that this event was the Babylonian destruction of the Temple and the Jewish Diaspora that followed. I have no problem with that.

Quote:
{17:6} Then We gave back to you a return victory over them. And We reinforced you with wealth and sons and made you more numerous in manpower

Manpower is a good translation of نفيرا but it does not translate the main aspect of it, namely, that they are ready on call. I suggest,
{17:6} Then We gave back to you the turn [of victory] over them. And We reinforced you with wealth and sons and made you more numerous in available manpower.

Quote:
{17:7} [And said], "If you do good, you do good for yourselves; and if you do evil, [you do it] to yourselves." Then when the final promise came, [We sent your enemies] to sadden your faces and to enter the temple in Jerusalem, as they entered it the first time, and to destroy what they had taken over with [total] destruction.

Here, we certainly don't know if this prediction has happened. The language suggests it is yet to happen. I suggest,
{17:7} [God speaking to the Children of Israel,] "If you do good, you do good for yourselves; and if you do evil, [you do it] to yourselves." Then when comes the [time of] promise of the latter [decree], [We would send your enemies] to defile your faces, enter the temple, as they entered it the first time, and decimate whatever they prevail over a [total] decimation."

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