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 Post subject: Verses 12:21-22
PostPosted: 06 Jun 2009, 07:47 
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Suggested translation1,2:


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1This translation may have been updated from the original suggested translation as a result of the discussions that follow.
2Click on the {verse number} of a translation to see other good translations of the verse.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 12:21-22
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2010, 19:44 
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Quote:
{12:21} And the one from Egypt who bought him said to his wife, "Make his residence comfortable. Perhaps he will benefit us, or we will adopt him as a son." And thus, We established Joseph in the land that We might teach him the interpretation of events. And God is predominant over His affair, but most of the people do not know.

I suggest,
{12:21} And the one who bought him from Egypt said to his wife, "Make his place of rest dignified; perhaps he will benefit us, or we will adopt him as a son." And thus, We established Joseph in the land and so that We might teach him the interpretation of narratives. And God is predominant over His affair, but most of the people do not know.

Quote:
{12:22} And when Joseph reached maturity, We gave him judgment and knowledge. And thus We reward the doers of good.

I love Pickthall's translation of أشده as "his prime." But I want to be closer to the Arabic word, so I suggest,
{12:22} And when he reached his most robust [state], We gave him judiciousness and knowledge. And thus We reward the benevolent.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 12:21-22
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2010, 22:05 
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Linguistic wrote:
{12:21} And the one who bought him from Egypt said to his wife, "Make his place of rest dignified; perhaps he will benefit us, or we will adopt him as a son." And thus, We established Joseph in the land and so that We might teach him the interpretation of narratives. And God is predominant over His affair, but most of the people do not know.

I changed a small part and added a comma:

{12:21} And the one who bought him from Egypt said to his wife, "Dignify his domicile; perhaps he will benefit us, or we will adopt him as a son." And thus, We established Joseph in the land, and so that We might teach him the interpretation of narratives. And God is predominant over His affair, but most of the people do not know.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 12:21-22
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2010, 19:34 
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It occurred to me that "مثواه" may be a noun (مصدر) rather than a location (ظرف مكان).

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 12:21-22
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2010, 19:40 
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Pragmatic wrote:
It occurred to me that "مثواه" may be a noun (مصدر) rather than a location (ظرف مكان).

Yes, I believe it is, and that is why I suggested "his resting place" as translation for it. What the nobleman was instructing his wife to do is to make Joseph's room like the room of a family member, as opposed to rooms of servants.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 12:21-22
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2010, 20:19 
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Linguistic wrote:
Pragmatic wrote:
It occurred to me that "مثواه" may be a noun (مصدر) rather than a location (ظرف مكان).

Yes, I believe it is, and that is why I suggested "his resting place" as translation for it. What the nobleman was instructing his wife to do is to make Joseph's room like the room of a family member, as opposed to rooms of servants.

I would suggest "Dignify his accommodation" or something that does not refer to any place in particular.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 12:21-22
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2010, 20:37 
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Pragmatic wrote:
I would suggest "Dignify his accommodation" or something that does not refer to any place in particular.

I like "accommodation." How about,
{12:21} And the one who bought him from Egypt said to his wife, "Honor his accommodation; perhaps he will benefit us, or we will adopt him as a son." And thus, We established Joseph in the land, and so that We might teach him the interpretation of narratives. And God is predominant over His affair, but most of the people do not know.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 12:21-22
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2010, 23:36 
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Linguistic wrote:
I like "accommodation." How about,
{12:21} And the one who bought him from Egypt said to his wife, "Honor his accommodation; perhaps he will benefit us, or we will adopt him as a son." And thus, We established Joseph in the land, and so that We might teach him the interpretation of narratives. And God is predominant over His affair, but most of the people do not know.

Sounds good. The only remark I have is that although "honor" is a better translation than "dignify", there is another meaning for "honor" in this context that takes away from the meaning, which is accept or obey as in "honor the coupons." That's why I suggest "dignify."

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 12:21-22
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2010, 01:38 
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Pragmatic wrote:
Sounds good. The only remark I have is that although "honor" is a better translation than "dignify", there is another meaning for "honor" in this context that takes away from the meaning, which is accept or obey as in "honor the coupons." That's why I suggest "dignify."

It also has one more ironic meaning and that is "have respect for his chastity", a command she violated.

The reason I don't like "dignify" is that its synonyms all mean "aggrandize." The word we're looking for is "make his room like the room of a nobleman." Perhaps "distinguish" or "elevate"?

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 12:21-22
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2010, 04:20 
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Linguistic wrote:
It also has one more ironic meaning and that is "have respect for his chastity", a command she violated.

Great point. I would go with either "honor his accommodation" or "grace his accommodation."

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