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 Post subject: Verses 12:41-42
PostPosted: 06 Jun 2009, 07:45 
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Suggested translation1,2:


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1This translation may have been updated from the original suggested translation as a result of the discussions that follow.
2Click on the {verse number} of a translation to see other good translations of the verse.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 12:41-42
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2010, 02:51 
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Quote:
{12:41} O two companions of prison, as for one of you, he will give drink to his master of wine; but as for the other, he will be crucified, and the birds will eat from his head. The matter has been decreed about which you both inquire."

I suggest,
{12:41} "O two companions of the prison, as for one of you, he will give his lord a drink of wine; but as for the other, he will be crucified, and the birds will eat from his head. The matter has been concluded about which you both inquire."

Quote:
{12:42} And he said to the one whom he knew would go free, "Mention me before your master." But Satan made him forget the mention [to] his master, and Joseph remained in prison several years.

I suggest,
{12:42} And he said to the one whom he suspected would be saved of the two of them, "Mention me before your lord." But Satan made him forget the mention [to] his lord, and Joseph remained in prison a few years.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 12:41-42
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2010, 04:59 
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Linguistic wrote:
I suggest,
{12:41} "O two companions of the prison, as for one of you, he will give his lord a drink of wine; but as for the other, he will be crucified, and the birds will eat from his head. The matter has been concluded about which you both inquire."

I am not sure that "both" is needed in the translation as it is grammatically required in Arabic for the two-tense.

Quote:
I suggest,
{12:42} And he said to the one whom he suspected would be saved of the two of them, "Mention me before your lord." But Satan made him forget the mention [to] his lord, and Joseph remained in prison a few years.

I think Joseph should be an interjection.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 12:41-42
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2010, 06:01 
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Pragmatic wrote:
I am not sure that "both" is needed in the translation as it is grammatically required in Arabic for the two-tense.

Problem is "you" is ambiguous in English. Joseph interpreted two dreams, so it is pertinent to say to them "you both."

Pragmatic wrote:
I think Joseph should be an interjection.

That's right! Thanks for noticing:

{12:42} And he said to the one whom he suspected would be saved of the two of them, "Mention me before your lord." But Satan made him forget the mention [to] his lord, and he (Joseph) remained in prison a few years.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 12:41-42
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2010, 06:25 
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Linguistic wrote:
Pragmatic wrote:
I am not sure that "both" is needed in the translation as it is grammatically required in Arabic for the two-tense.

Problem is "you" is ambiguous in English. Joseph interpreted two dreams, so it is pertinent to say to them "you both."

I guess what I am saying is that it is known from the context that they are two, and the two-tense is mandatory in Arabic but not in English, so the situation is similar to the use of "you" for both singular and plural. Only when there is a semantic necessity to differentiate that we do differentiate, but we don't just say "you one" if the context is clear.

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