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 Post subject: Verses 12:76-77
PostPosted: 06 Jun 2009, 07:40 
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Suggested translation1,2:


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1This translation may have been updated from the original suggested translation as a result of the discussions that follow.
2Click on the {verse number} of a translation to see other good translations of the verse.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 12:76-77
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2010, 22:27 
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Quote:
{12:76} So he began [the search] with their bags before the bag of his brother; then he extracted it from the bag of his brother. Thus did We plan for Joseph. He could not have taken his brother within the religion of the king except that God willed. We raise in degrees whom We will, but over every possessor of knowledge is one [more] knowing.

I suggest,
{12:76} So he began [the search] with their containers before the container of his brother; then he extracted it from the container of his brother. Thus did We plan for Joseph. He could not have taken his brother within the religion of the king except that God willed. We raise in degrees whom We will, and over every possessor of knowledge is one much Knowledgeable.

Quote:
{12:77} They said, "If he steals - a brother of his has stolen before." But Joseph kept it within himself and did not reveal it to them. He said, "You are worse in position, and God is most knowing of what you describe."

Since "said" implies saying something out loud, which is not what Joseph did because the verse says that he kept it to himself. So, I suggest,
{12:77} They said, "If he steals - a brother of his stole before." But Joseph kept it within himself and did not reveal it to them; he said [to himself], "You are worse in position, and God is most knowing of what you describe."

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 12:76-77
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2010, 04:38 
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Linguistic wrote:
I suggest,
{12:76} So he began [the search] with their containers before the container of his brother; then he extracted it from the container of his brother. Thus did We plan for Joseph. He could not have taken his brother within the religion of the king except that God willed. We raise in degrees whom We will, and over every possessor of knowledge is one much Knowledgeable.

One suggestion: "Thus did We plot for Joseph."

Quote:
Since "said" implies saying something out loud, which is not what Joseph did because the verse says that he kept it to himself. So, I suggest,
{12:77} They said, "If he steals - a brother of his stole before." But Joseph kept it within himself and did not reveal it to them; he said [to himself], "You are worse in position, and God is most knowing of what you describe."

Interesting angle. I have always understood the verse differently. I took the first part as a reaction to what they said (like he took the offense in and didn't react), and the second part to be spoken words. I think even if the other understanding is true, it would be interpretive.

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 Post subject: Re: Verses 12:76-77
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2010, 17:26 
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Pragmatic wrote:
One suggestion: "Thus did We plot for Joseph."

That would be a more precise translation, if it weren't for the fact that "to plot" has acquired a negative connotation in modern parlance.

Linguistic wrote:
Since "said" implies saying something out loud, which is not what Joseph did because the verse says that he kept it to himself. So, I suggest,
{12:77} They said, "If he steals - a brother of his stole before." But Joseph kept it within himself and did not reveal it to them; he said [to himself], "You are worse in position, and God is most knowing of what you describe."
Pragmatic wrote:
Interesting angle. I have always understood the verse differently. I took the first part as a reaction to what they said (like he took the offense in and didn't react), and the second part to be spoken words. I think even if the other understanding is true, it would be interpretive.

It is interpretive. I think I should stick to my own rules and remove the interjection, i.e.,
{12:77} They said, "If he steals - a brother of his stole before." But Joseph kept it within himself and did not reveal it to them; he said, "You are worse in position, and God is most knowing of what you describe."

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