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 Post subject: Did 24:60 abrogate 24:31 or did it abrogate itself?
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2010, 03:29 
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Ibn Al-Jawzi reports that Ibn Abbaas and Ad-Dhahhaak have said that

was abrogated by


He writes,

ذكر الآية الرابعة: قوله تعالى "ولا يبدين زينتهن إلا ما ظهر منها". قال ابن مسعود رضي الله عنه هو الرداء. وقد زعم قوم أن هذا نسخ بقوله "والقواعد من النساء اللاتي لا يرجون نكاحا فليس عليهن جناح أن يضعن ثيابهن". أخبرنا المبارك بن علي قال أبنا أحمد بن الحسين قال أبنا البرمكي قال أبنا محمد بن إسماعيل قال بنا أبو بكر بن أبي داود قال بنا محمد بن قهزاد قال بنا علي ابن الحسين بن واقد قال حدثني أبي عن يزيد النحوي عن عكرمة عن ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما "وقل للمؤمنات يغضضن من أبصارهن" نسخ ذلك واستثنى من قوله "والقواعد من النساء اللاتي لا يرجون نكاحا" إلى قوله "ليعلم ما يخفين من زينتهن" وكذلك قال الضحاك. وهذا ليس بصحيح لأن الآية الأولى فيمن يخاف الافتتان بها وهذه الآية في العجائز فلا نسخ


He dismisses the claim on the basis of different references: 24:31 is about women who may cause seduction by showing any of their charms, while 24:60 is about old women.

Dr. Mustafa Zayd, in his book النسخ في القرآن الكريم, volume 2, page 91 (item 815) reports that some have claimed that the exception "except what is showing of it" is the abrogating. He does not say who made the claim, but he rejects it and all claims based solely on exception.

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 Post subject: Re: Did 24:60 abrogate 24:31?
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2010, 08:33 
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Why do people employ abrogation when it is abundantly clear to them that the ruling in the 'abrogated' verse is not abolished?

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 Post subject: Re: Did 24:60 abrogate 24:31?
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2010, 01:52 
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Pragmatic wrote:
Why do people employ abrogation when it is abundantly clear to them that the ruling in the 'abrogated' verse is not abolished?

In addition, the man they quote, Ibn Abbaas, may God have been pleased with him, said نسخ ذلك واستثنى (he amended that and exempted).

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 Post subject: Who said what
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2010, 01:53 
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For:
Ibn Abbaas (who clearly said it was a case of exception),
Ad-Dhahhaak,
Ibn Salaama, in his book الناسخ والمسوخ في القرآن الكريم, pages 92-93.

Against:
Ibn Al-Jawzi,
Makki (implied),
Dr. Mustafa Zayd (who rejected the claim that 24:31 abrogated itself).

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