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 Post subject: Did 8:66 abrogate 8:15-16?
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2010, 19:00 
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This case is about not running away from the enemy. Ibn Al-Jawzi reports that some people have said that

have been abrogated by


This is what Ibn Al-Jawzi writes about it,

ذكر الآية الثانية: قوله تعالى "يا أيها الذين آمنوا إذا لقيتم الذين كفروا زحفا فلا تولوهم الأدبار ومن يولهم يومئذ دبره إلا متحرفا لقتال"، وقد ذهب قوم منهم ابن عباس وأبو سعيد الخدري والحسن وابن جبير وقتادة والضحاك إلى أنها في أهل بدر خاصة. أخبرنا إسماعيل بن أحمد قال أبنا عمر بن عبيد الله قال أبنا أبن بشران قال أبنا إسحاق بن أحمد قال بنا عبد الله بن أحمد قال حدثني أبي قال بنا محمد بن جعفر قال بنا شعبة عن داود قال سمعت الشعبي يحدث عن أبي سعيد الخدري "ومن يولهم يومئذ دبره" قال نزلت في يوم بدر. قال أحمد وبنا روح قال بنا حبيب بن الشهيد عن الحسن "ومن يولهم يومئذ دبره" قال نزلت في أهل بدر. قال أحمد وبنا روح قال بنا شعبة عن الحسن قال إنما شدد على أهل بدر قال أحمد وبنا حسين قال بنا حماد بن زيد عن أيوب عن عكرمة "ومن يولهم يومئذ دبره" قال يوم بدر.

قلت لفظ الآية عام وإن كانت نزلت في قوم بأعيانهم، وقد روي عن ابن عباس رضي الله عنه وغيره أنها عامة. ثم لهؤلاء فيه قولان: أحدهما أنها منسوخة بقوله "فإن يكن منكم مائة صابرة يغلبوا مائتين"، فليس للمؤمنين أن يفروا عن مثليهم. قال آخرون هي محكمة وهذا هو الصحيح، لأنها محكمة في النهي عن الفرار، فيحمل النهي على ما إذا كان العدو أعلى من عدد المسلمين وقد ذهب إلى نحو هذا ابن جرير


Ibn Al-Jawzi correctly argues that the command in 8:15 is to not run away and that command has not been reversed in 8:66. He said that Ibn Jareer said something similar.

He also quotes reports that Ibn Abbaas said 8:15 was about the battle of Badr and another report that it was general. This is not the first time I saw conflicting reports about what Ibn Abbaas said.

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 Post subject: Re: Did 8:66 abrogate 8:15 or 8:16?
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2010, 06:10 
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Linguistic wrote:
He also quotes reports that Ibn Abbaas said 8:15 was about the battle of Badr and another report that it was general. This is not the first time I saw conflicting reports about what Ibn Abbaas said.

I noticed that he said that, but I couldn't find the name Ibn-Abbas in the actual instances he cited for the Badr interpretation.

Anyway, the wording of 8:66 (and 8:65 in particular) suggests that the battle hasn't started yet (or at least can certainly be interpreted this way), so I agree that there is no abrogation.

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 Post subject: Who said what
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2010, 19:37 
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For:
`Ataa' ibn Abi-Rabaah,
Ibn Abbaas (implied by one report).

Against:
The majority, according to Al-Khazraji,
Ibn Abbaas (another report),
Al-Hasan, Ikrima, Abu-Sa`eed Al-Khudri, Ibn Jabeer, Ad-Dhahhaak (implied),
Ibn Jareer At-Tabari,
Ibn Al-Jawzi,
An-Nahhaas (he said nothing about 8:15 but rejected the abrogation of 8:16),
Al-Aloosi, Ar-Raazi, Ibn Al`Arabi (according to Az-Zalmi),
Dr. Mustafa Zayd,
Dr. Az-Zalmi.

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 Post subject: Re: Did 8:66 abrogate 8:15-16?
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2010, 13:34 
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Al-Khazraji, in his book نفس الصباح في غريب القرآن وناسخه ومنسوخه, volume 1, pages 366-367, discusses this claim and reports two opposing opinions of Ibn Abbaas and Al-Hasan. Al-Hasan said that 8:15-16 was about the battle of Badr in particular and that fleeing battle is not a major sin. Ibn Abbaas, however, said that 8:15-16 were not abrogated and fleeing battle is a major sin.

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