TheMostReadBook.org

An English translation of the Quran that is as close as possible to the Arabic sacred text
View active topics
  Verse(s):    
View unanswered posts





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Did the Sunna abrogate 4:11-12?
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2010, 16:03 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 04 May 2009, 16:10
Posts: 4520
Location: USA
Al-Khazraji says in his book نفس الصباح في غريب القرآن وناسخه ومنسوخه, volume 1, pages 267-268, that the bequest provision mentioned four times in

was abrogated by the hadeeth of the Prophet, peace be upon him, to Sa`d ibn Abi-Waqqaas, reported by Al-Bukhaari, Muslim and Abu-Daawood, where the Prophet (PBUH) says, "A third is too much." Makki mentions this case too, but says that the majority disagrees because they do not believe the Sunna can abrogate the Quran, only elaborates it.

The hadeeth starts out with Sa`d asking the Prophet (PBUH) if he can give away two thirds of his wealth for charity when he dies. The Prophet (PBUH) forbade him and said that his daughter is more worthy of his wealth. Sa`d suggested one half and the Prophet (PBUH) again disallowed it. Finally, Sa`d suggested a third and the Prophet (PBUH) said, "A third then and a third is too much."

Doesn't that mean that a third is fine? In fact, this is the hadeeth that all scholars quote as evidence that a bequest cannot exceed one third of the estate. Bequests have not been abrogated; their extent was defined. How can something that God repeats for emphasis four times be abrogated?

_________________
A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Who said what
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2010, 16:05 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 04 May 2009, 16:10
Posts: 4520
Location: USA
For:
Al-Khazraji,
Abu-Bakr Al-Hamdaani (implied, in his book الاعتبار في الناسخ والمنسوخ من الآثار, pages 23-24),
Abush-Shaykh Al-Haafizh (quoted by Al-Hamdaani).

Against:
The majority, according to Makki,
Makki (implied).

_________________
A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Did the Sunna abrogate 4:11-12?
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2010, 04:27 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 05 May 2009, 00:16
Posts: 1833
Location: USA
Where in 4:11-12 does it say anything contradicting whatever fraction the Prophet (PBUH) approved of?

BTW, I'd translate the last part of the hadeeth as "a third is a lot" or "a third is plenty" since 'too much' may be interpreted as being more than what is allowed.

_________________
To translate is the best way to understand


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Did the Sunna abrogate 4:11-12?
PostPosted: 14 Aug 2010, 13:21 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 04 May 2009, 16:10
Posts: 4520
Location: USA
Pragmatic wrote:
Where in 4:11-12 does it say anything contradicting whatever fraction the Prophet (PBUH) approved of?

BTW, I'd translate the last part of the hadeeth as "a third is a lot" or "a third is plenty" since 'too much' may be interpreted as being more than what is allowed.

Good points. Thanks.

As I was reciting Chapter 4 last night, I noticed that 4:11-12 are inside a context that emphasizes the following points:

  • These rulings are a mandate from God (4:11).
  • These shares as stated are mandated shares (4:7),
  • We have no way of knowing who among our heirs are of more benefit to us (4:11). Consequently, we cannot determine their shares ourselves! God has.
  • These rulings are the limits of God which we must never infringe on, or risk torment in Hell,

Despite all that, you have Muslims claiming that these rulings have been abrogated!

_________________
A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Did the Sunna abrogate 4:11-12?
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2013, 19:28 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 04 May 2009, 16:10
Posts: 4520
Location: USA
Abu-Bakr Al-Hamdaani, in his book الاعتبار في الناسخ والمنسوخ من الآثار, page 23, as he cites evidence that the Sunna may abrogate the Quran (!), quotes Abush-Shaykh Al-Haafizh who was giving examples of that notion by citing the hadeeth "A Muslim may not inherit from a disbeliever, nor a disbeliever may inherit from a Muslim," reported by Ibn Hanbal.

So, they are thinking of another hadeeth doing the abrogation in this case. Well, here too is a case of specification, not abrogation. The children who are required to inherit, per 4:11, do not include disbelieving children. Is that hard to conclude?

_________________
A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
It is currently 17 Sep 2019, 12:15

All times are UTC

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group