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 Post subject: Did 21:101-103 abrogate 21:98-100?
PostPosted: 06 Jun 2010, 18:56 
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Ibn Salaama and Ibn Al-Baarizi claimed that

Were abrogated by


Ibn Hazm Al-Andalusi agrees about 21:98-99.

Verses 21:98-103 are one continuous text making this consistent point,
"Those of you who worship other than God, along with the idols you worship, will be the firewood of Hell. But those of you whom God is pleased with, because of their faith and good deeds, are saved from that torment."

That teaching is repeated very often in the Quran and there is no conflict in it whatsoever to call for abrogation.

Dr. Az-Zalmi adds that all those verses are declarative anyway and declarative statements cannot be abrogated. He also quoted An-Nahhaas, who claimed many abrogation cases himself, rejecting this one.

Al-Khazraji, in his book نفس الصباح في غريب القرآن وناسخه ومنسوخه, volume 2, page 505, elaborated more on this case and said that the point of abrogation is the exclusion of Jesus and Mary, both of whom have been worshiped, said Makki in his book الإيضاح. Makki rejected the claim as a case of specification from a generality.

I beg to differ. The verse cannot possibly include Jesus and Mary because it refers to non-human idols, evidenced by the non-human article ما (what). If it used the article من (whom), there would have been cause to claim abrogation.

It should also be noted that Ibn Al-Jawzi rejected all claims of abrogation involving Chapter 21 but did not say what they were, so we cannot conclude that he looked at this claim. His stated reason for rejecting those claim is that they are "so improper."

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 Post subject: Who said what
PostPosted: 06 Jun 2010, 18:58 
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For:
Ibn Salaama,
Al-Baarizi,
Ibn Hazm Al-Andalusi.

Against:
An-Nahhaas,
Makki,
Dr. Mustafa Zayd,
Dr. Az-Zalmi.

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 Post subject: Re: Did 21:101-103 abrogate 21:98-100?
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2011, 22:18 
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Linguistic wrote:
The verse cannot possibly include Jesus and Mary because it refers to non-human idols, evidenced by the non-human article ما (what). If it used the article من (whom), there would have been cause to claim abrogation.

Turns out that the Prophet (PBUH) may have said the same thing! Ibn Salaama, in his book الناسخ والمنسوخ في القرآن الكريم, page 86, supports this claim and cites a narration that the polytheists, after hearing 21:98-100, said that they will debate Muhammad (PBUH) about it, since, in their argument, Jesus, Ezra, the sun, etc., were all worshiped, so how can they be fuel for hell?

Then he cites another narration, where the Prophet (PBUH) ridiculed the polytheists for their "ignorance of their language that led them to disbelief". He noted that the article God uses is only used for inanimate beings!

Ibn Salaama does not cite the credentials of either narration and says that he doesn't know what is right here. The verifier of his book, Muwaffaq Al-Jabr, doesn't verify either narration as well. So, I decided to do that myself! The first narration is said to be narrated by Ibn Abbaas (RA) but it was not reported by any of the acknowledged Hadeeth books! The second narration is not mentioned anywhere that I could find.

Interestingly enough, one of the narrations I found is reported by Ibn Hajar in his book موافقة الخبر بالخبر, that other verses in this context are

But narrator Ibn Abbaas does not mention abrogation in any of those narrations. So, when Ibn Salaama claimed abrogation here and cited Ibn Abbaas as evidence he was interpreting Ibn Abbaas. Abrogation cannot be done by interpretation, as all pro-abrogation scholars have said; only by an explicit narration.

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 Post subject: Re: Did 21:101-103 abrogate 21:98-100?
PostPosted: 03 Mar 2011, 05:21 
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Linguistic wrote:
I beg to differ. The verse cannot possibly include Jesus and Mary because it refers to non-human idols, evidenced by the non-human article ما (what). If it used the article من (whom), there would have been cause to claim abrogation.

I was intrigued by the claim and then I thought of the same argument you mention here, but I decided to read on because I was sure you will talk about it yourself. :)

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