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 Post subject: Did 4:11 abrogate 4:8?
PostPosted: 25 Jan 2010, 05:21 
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As-Suyooti reports that some have said that 4:8 was abrogated but doesn't say by which verse. This verse speaks of the distribution of a decedent's estate and whether non-heirs who are in need may get a tip from the estate. He also said that some say it's not but people neglected complying with it, and he tends to agree that it wasn't abrogated. Here is the verse,

I don't quite understand how a mandate can be neglected without some authority enforcing it, so either there is no mandate in this verse, which is my humble view, or it has indeed been abrogated. Ibn Al-Jawzi discusses that and states that the claimed abrogating verse is the inheritance verse,

Here is what he said,

ذكر الآية الثالثة: قوله تعالى "وإذا حضر القسمة أولوا القربى واليتامى والمساكين فارزقوهم منه". اختلف العلماء في هذه الآية على قولين: الأول أنها محكمة فروى سعيد بن جبير عن ابن عباس قال أن الناس يزعمون أن هذه الآية نسخت والله ما نسخت ولكنها مما تهاون الناس به. وأخبرنا إسماعيل بن أحمد قال بنا عمر بن عبيد الله البقال قال أبنا ابن بشران قال أبنا إسحاق بن أحمد الكاذي قال بنا عبد الله بن أحمد بن حنبل قال حدثني أبي قال بنا يحيى بن آدم قال بنا الأشجعي عن سفيان عن أبي إسحاق الشيباني عن عكرمة عن ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما "وإذا حضر القسمة أولوا القربى" قال هي محكمة وليست بمنسوخة، قال وكان ابن عباس إذا ولي رضخ وإذا كان المال فيه قلة اعتذر إليهم وذلك القول المعروف. قال أحمد وبنا عبد الصمد قال بنا همام قال بنا قتادة قال الأشعري ليست بمنسوخة. وقال أحمد وبنا عبد الوهاب عن سعيد عن مطر عن الحسن قال والله ما هي بمنسوخة، وإنها الثابتة ولكن الناس بخلوا وشحوا، وكان الناس إذ قسم الميراث حضر الجار والفقير واليتيم والمسكين فيعطونهم من ذلك. قال أحمد وبنا هشيم قال أبنا أبو بشر عن سعيد بن جبير قال وأبنا مغيرة عن إبراهيم قالا هي محكمة وليست بمنسوخة. قال أحمد وبنا يزيد قال أبنا سفيان ابن حسين قال سمعت الحسن ومحمدا يقولان في هذه الآية "وإذا حضر القسمة أولوا القربى" هي مثبتة لم تنسخ، وكانت القسمة إذا حضرت حضر هؤلاء فرضخ لهم منها وأعطوا. قال أحمد وبنا يحيى بن آدم قال بنا الأشجعي عن سفيان عن مغيرة عن ابراهيم والشعبي "وإذا حضر القسمة أولوا القربى" أحمد وبنا عبد الأعلى عن معمر عن الزهري أنها محكمة لم تنسخ. وممن ذهب إلى إحكامها عطاء وأبو العالية ويحيى بن يعمر ثم اختلف من قال بإحكامها في الأمر المذكور فيها. فذهب أكثرهم إلى أنه على سبيل الاستحباب والندب وهو الصحيح، وذهب بعضهم إلى أنه على الوجوب.

القول الثاني أنها منسوخة. أخبرنا إسماعيل بن أحمد قال أبنا عمر بن عبيد الله قال أبنا ابن بشران قال بنا إسحاق بن أحمد الكاذي قال بنا عبد الله بن أحمد بن حنبل قال حدثني أبي قال بنا حجاج عن ابن جريح عن عطاء الخراساني عن ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما "وإذا حضر القسمة أولوا القربى واليتامى والمساكين فارزقوهم منه"، فنسختها آية الميراث فجعل لكل إنسانا نصيبا مما ترك مما قل منه أو كثر. قال أحمد وبنا يحيى ابن آدم قال بنا الأشجعي عن سفيان عن السدي عن أبي مالك "وإذا حضر القسمة" قال نسختها آية الميراث. أخبرنا عبد الوهاب بن المبارك قال أبنا أبو الفضل بن خيرون وأبوطاهر الباقلاوي قال أبنا ابن شاذان قال أبنا أحمد بن كامل قال أبنا محمد بن سعد قال حدثني أبي قال حدثني عمي عن أبيه عن جده عن ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما "وإذا حضر القسمة أولوا القربى واليتامى والمساكين فارزقوهم منه وقولوا لهم قولا معروفا" يعني عند قسمة الميراث وذلك قبل أن ينزل الفرائض وأنزل الله بعد ذلك الفرائض فأعطى كل ذي حق حقه. وروى مجاهد عن ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما قال نسختها "يوصيكم الله في أولادكم للذكر مثل حظ الأنثيين" الآية. وأخبرنا إسماعيل بن أحمد قال أبنا عمر بن عبيد الله قال أبنا ابن بشران قال أبنا إسحاق بن أحمد قال أبنا عبد الله بن أحمد بن حنبل قال حدثني أبي قال بنا عبد الوهاب عن سعيد عن قتادة قال قال سعيد بن المسيب: كانت هذه قبل الفرائض وقسمة الميراث فلما جعل الله لأهل الميراث ميراثهم صارت منسوخة. قال أحمد وبنا عبد الصمد قال بنا همام قال بنا قتادة عن سعيد بن المسيب انها منسوخة قال كانت قبل الفرائض وكان ما ترك من مال أعطي منه الفقراء والمساكين واليتامى وذوي القربى إذا حضروا القسمة ثم نسخ بعد ذلك نسخها المواريث فألحق الله لكل ذي حق حقه فصارت وصية من ماله يوصي بها لذي قرابته وحيث يشاء. أخبرنا المبارك بن علي قال أبنا أحمد بن الحسين بن قريش قال أبنا ابراهيم بن عمر البرمكي قال أبنا محمد بن إسماعيل بن العباس قال بنا أبو بكر بن أبي داود قال بنا إسحاق بن إبراهيم بن حبيب قال حدثني يحيى بن يمان عن سفيان عن السدي عن أبي مالك "وإذا حضر القسمة" قال نسختها آية الميراث قال أبو بكر وبنا يعقوب بن سفيان قال بنا عبد الله بن عثمان قال أبنا عيسى بن عبيد الكندي قال بنا عبيد الله مولى عمر بن مسلم أن الضحاك بن مزاحم قال في قوله"وإذا حضر القسمة أولوا القربى" قال نسختها آية الميراث. وقال عكرمة نسختها آية الفرائض. وممن ذهب إلى هذا القول قتادة وأبو الشعثاء وأبو صالح وعطاء في رواية


He reports many scholars who said that 4:8 was abrogated and many who said it wasn't. What's confusing is that Ibn `Abbaas is reported swearing by God it wasn't and also reported saying it was.

One of the opinions cited said that 4:8 encourges, rather than mandates, that the heirs give in charity some of the inheritance they received to poor people who happen to be around at the time the estate is divided. That's how I see it too. 4:11 does not forbid that. Certainly money you inherit becomes your property and as such you can do with it as you please, so God is encouraging you to be charitable with the money you inherited and share a bit of it with the poor who happen to witness the division. This also has significance in that the poor witnesses will not envy the heirs or their wealth; rather they will pray for them. It's a win-win situation.

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 Post subject: Who said what
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2010, 04:47 
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For:
Ibn Abbaas (in one report),
Abu-Maalik, Ad-Dhahhaak, Qataada, Ikrima (in one report), Sa`eed ibn Al-Musayyib,
Abush-Sha`thaa', Abu-Saalih,
Ataa' (in one report),
Al-Hasan (who said the abrogating was 9:60, in one report by Makki),
As-Suddi (according to Makki),
Ibn Hazm Al-Andalusi,
Ibn Salaama.

Against:
`Aa'isha,
Ibn Abbaas (in another report by Al-Bukhaari),
Ikrima (implied by another report),
Abu-Moosa Al-Ash`ari,
Al-Hasan (in another report),
Ibrahim (An-Nakh`i), Mugheera,
Mujaahid ibn Jabr,
Muhammad (ibn Al-Hasan Ash-Shaybaani, Abu-Haneefa's fellow),
Az-Zuhri, Ash-Sha`bi,
Ataa' (in another report),
Abdullah ibn Abdur-Rahmaan ibn Abi-Bakr,
Muhammad ibn Abi-Bakr (according to Saami Hasan in his commentary on قلائد المرجان في بيان الناسخ والمنسوخ في القرآن, by Mar`i ibn Yoosuf Al-Karmi, page 83),
Abul-Aaliya,
Sa`eed ibn Jabeer, `Ubayda ibn `Amr,
Yahya ibn Ya`mur,
Hattaan ibn Abdillah Ar-Ruqaashi,
Al-Bukhaari (implied),
Ibn Hazm (Azh-Zhaahiri?, according to Al-Jabri),
Ibn Al-Arabi,
At-Tabari,
An-Nahhaas,
`Urwa ibn Az-Zubayr (according to An-Nahhaas and confirmed by Shu`la),
Makki (quoted by Dr. Faaris),
Ar-Raazi,
As-Suddi, Al-Baaqir, Al-Balkhi, Al-Jabaa'i, Makki and Muhammad Al-Mutahhar (according to Dr. Al-Husayni),
Basheer-ud-Deen Mahmood, M. Rasheed Ridha and Jamaal-ud-Deen Al-Qaasimi (according to Haani Taahir),
Shah Waliullah Dehlvi (in his book الفوز الكبير في أصول التفسير, page 63),
Az-Zurqaani (from his book مناهل العرفان, volume 2, page 263, quoted by `Ataaya ),
Muhammad Abduh,
Muhammad Al-Khudhari (Bek),
Al-Jabri,
Dr. Mustafa Zayd,
Dr. Ahmad Hijaazi As-Saqqa,
Ali Hasan Al-Areedh,
M. M. Nada,
Dr. Az-Zalmi,
Dr. Muhammad Saalih Ali Mustafa,
Jamaal `Ataaya,
Haani Taahir,
Dr. Manna` Al-Qattaan, in his book مباحث في علوم القرآن, page 236.

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 Post subject: Re: Who said what
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2010, 07:22 
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Linguistic wrote:
For:
Ibn Abbaas (in one report),
...

Against:
Ibn Abbaas (in another report),

Any challenge to the authenticity of either of the reports?

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 Post subject: Re: Did 4:11 abrogate 4:8?
PostPosted: 20 May 2010, 05:50 
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Dr. Ahmad Hijaazi As-Saqqa, in his book لانسخ في القرآن, pages 101-102, adds to the list of scholars who did not think 4:8 was abrogated one prominent name: Abdullah ibn Abdir-Rahmaan ibn Abi-Bakr. As he was dividing his father's estate, and Aa'isha was still alive, he gave everybody in the room something from the estate before dividing it up among the legal heirs. He quoted 4:8.

As-Saqqa also quotes Ibn Abbaas saying that God wants people to give their kin, orphans and the poor from bequests and if there is no bequest then from the estate.

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 Post subject: Re: Who said what
PostPosted: 31 May 2010, 06:10 
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Pragmatic wrote:
Linguistic wrote:
For:
Ibn Abbaas (in one report),
...

Against:
Ibn Abbaas (in another report),

Any challenge to the authenticity of either of the reports?

Az-Zalmi, in his book التبيان لرفع غموض النسخ في القرآن, page 200, says that the narration attributed to Ibn Abbaas is overruled by another with many more narrators where Ibn Abbaas has said that the verse (4:8) is not abrogated and that Abu-Moosa Al-Ash`ari, Ibrahim An-Nakh`i, Ash-Sha`bi, Mujaahid, Al-Hasan, Sa`eed ibn Jabeer ruled likewise and used to give from the estate whoever attended the division.

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 Post subject: Re: Did 4:11 abrogate 4:8?
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2010, 00:01 
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Abu-`Ubayd Al-Qaasim ibn Salaam, in his book الناسخ والمنسوخ في الكتاب والسنة, pages 36-39, adds a few names: `Aa'isha, Mujaahid, Sa`eed ibn Jabeer, `Ubayda ibn `Amr and Hattaan ibn Abdillah Ar-Ruqaashi all said 4:8 was not abrogated and learned scholars applied it to estate distribution.

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 Post subject: Re: Did 4:11 abrogate 4:8?
PostPosted: 03 Sep 2010, 15:09 
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Jamaal `Ataaya, in his book حقيقة النسخ وطلاقة النص في القرآن, pages 204-207, discusses and refutes this claim. Among his arguments is what Ar-Raazi said in his book مفاتيح الغيب, volume 5, page 38,

Ar-Raazi wrote:
If those (non-heirs among kin, the poor and the needy) had a right to inheritance, God would have specified their portion like he did the heirs. Since He did not, we know it's not obligatory.

`Ataaya elaborates on this point by saying that the clause فارزقوهم منه (so, provide them from it) does not specify a fixed amount, therefore it's not an inheritance and thus cannot be abrogated by inheritance verses. Inheritance is by specific shares. That is why the Prophet, peace be upon him, said, "God has given each rightful heir his share, there shall be no bequest to an inheriting heir."

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 Post subject: Re: Did 4:11 abrogate 4:8?
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2010, 19:01 
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Haani Taahir refutes this claim in his book تنزيه آي القرآن عن النسخ والنقصان, pages 96-99, and ends with an interesting observation: Verse 4:8 starts out with a conditional, therefore it is contingent. If it were a mandate then the command in it would not mention the condition.

I don't agree, because a mandate can be contingent. My take is that the command in 4:8 is not a mandate because it's unspecific about the amount to give, while 4:11-12 are. Thus, it's a recommendation of graciousness toward the poor, the orphans and kin who do not inherit.

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 Post subject: Consequences
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2011, 06:29 
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Al-Jabri, in his book لا نسخ في القرآن...لماذا؟, pages 64-68, rejects this claim and points out the noble teachings of 4:8,
  1. Heirs are encouraged to each contribute some of their shares to the poor who attend an estate distribution. This teaches cooperation toward goodness.
  2. Town folk the decedent grew up with, have a right to something from his estate. This makes them feel rewarded for whatever good they did for the decedent.
  3. Depriving the poor who happen at an estate distribution arouses their envy and resentment and thus muddies the water between them and the heirs. Giving them something, therefore, casts down their eye of envy and extinguishes any fire of resentment before it sparks.

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 Post subject: Re: Did 4:11 abrogate 4:8?
PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 17:58 
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Ibn Salaama lists this case as an abrogation in his book الناسخ والمنسوخ في القرآن الكريم, page 44. But he says that 4:11 "explains 4:7-8 and defines the division." So, it sounds like he sees elaboration as abrogation. Elaboration is naskh (amendment) but it is not abrogation.

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