TheMostReadBook.org

An English translation of the Quran that is as close as possible to the Arabic sacred text
View active topics
  Verse(s):    
View unanswered posts





Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Did the Sunna abrogate 5:6?
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2010, 05:30 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 04 May 2009, 16:10
Posts: 4558
Location: USA
This case is about whether a Muslim must perform ablution before every prayer. The consesus is that ablution is only necessary after going to the bathroom. However, that is known from the Sunna, not from the Quran. Here is the verse,


This is Ibn Al-Jawzi's discussion. He refutes the case because he rejects that the Sunna can abrogate the Quran,

ذكر الآية الثالثة: قوله تعالى "إذا قمتم إلى الصلاة فاغسلوا وجوهكم". اختلف العلماء فيها على قولين:
الأول أن في الكلام إضمارا تقديره إذا قمتم إلى الصلاة محدثين، وهذا قول سعد بن أبي وقاص وأبي موسى وابن عباس والفقهاء.
والثاني أنه على إطلاقه وأنه يوجب على كل من أراد الصلاة أن يتوضأ سواء كان محدثا أو غير محدث، وهذا مروي عن جماعة منهم علي وعكرمة وابن سيرين. ثم اختلفوا هل هذا الحكم باق أم نسخ، فذهب أكثرهم إلى أنه باق وقال بعضم بل هو منسوخ بالنسبة، وهو حديث بريدة أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم صلى يوم الفتح بوضوء واحد فقال له عمر صنعت شيئا لم تكن تصنعه فقال عمدا فعلته يا عمر. وهذا قول بعيد لما سبق بيانه من أن أخبار الآحاد لا تجوز أن تنسخ القرآن، وإنما يحمل فعل رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم هذا على تبين معنى الآية وأن المراد إذا قمتم وأنتم محدثون، وإنما كان يتوضأ لكل صلاة لطلب الفضيلة. وقد حكى أبو جعفر النحاس عن الشافعي أنه قال لو وكلنا إلى الآية لكان على كل قائم إلى الصلاة الطهارة، فلما صلى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم الصلوات بطهور واحد بينها فيكون المعنى إذا قمتم وقد أحدثتم فاغسلوا. وقد قال بعضهم يجوز أن يكون ذلك قد نسخ بوحي لم تستقر تلاوته فإنه قد روى أبو جعفر ابن جرير الطبري بإسناد عن عبد الله بن حنظلة الغسيل رضي الله عنهما أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أمر بالوضوء عند كل صلاة فشق ذلك عليه فرفع عند الوضوء إلا من حدث


I concur with Ibn Al-Jawzi and the majority opinion that the Sunna cannot abrogate the Quran. We discussed this point in this topic. I also agree with Ibn Al-Jawzi that 5:6 means when someone has been to the bathroom. This is made abundantly clear by the subsequent sentences which specify what to do when one has ejaculated and what one should do when no water is around. There is no need to think abrogation here.

Lastly, Ibn Al-Jawzi mentions a narration reported by At-Tabari and narrated by Abdullah ibn Hanzhala that the Prophet (PBUH) first ordered ablution before every prayer then changed that later to be only after one has been to the bathroom. No authentication of this was made however. And even if it were authentic, it would be a case of Sunna abrogating Sunna and thus has no bearing on the issue of abrogation in the Quran.

_________________
A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Did the Sunna abrogate 5:6?
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2010, 05:56 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 05 May 2009, 00:16
Posts: 1839
Location: USA
Linguistic wrote:
I concur with Ibn Al-Jawzi and the majority opinion that the Sunna cannot abrogate the Quran. We discussed this point in this post. I also agree with Ibn Al-Jawzi that 5:6 means when someone has been to the bathroom. This is made abundantly clear by the subsequent sentences which specify what to do when one has ejaculated and what one should do when no water is around. There is no need to think abrogation here.

Agreed. When the verse specifies the 'dry ablution' alternative in the absence of water, it enumerates the conditions where it needs to be done. Therefore, if none of these conditions occurred (one of which is going to the bathroom) and there was no water, dry ablution would not be required. It stands to logic then that if none of the conditions occurred and there was water, real ablution would not be required either.

_________________
To translate is the best way to understand


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Who said what
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2010, 13:45 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 04 May 2009, 16:10
Posts: 4558
Location: USA
For:
Ikrima, Ibn Seereen (implied),
Abdullah ibn Hanzhala ibn Abi-`Aamir,
Burayda ibn Al-Ħaşeeb Al-Aslami (implied, quoted by Dr. Zayd),
Ash-Sha`bi,
Jareer ibn Abdillah Al-Bajli (implied),
An-Nahhaas (implied),
Ibn Al`Arabi (quoted by Dr. Zayd).

Against:
Ali,
Sa`d ibn Abi-Waqqaas,
Abu-Moosa (Al-Ash`ari?),
Ibn Abbaas,
The majority, according to Ibn Al-Jawzi,
Maalik (implied by his interpretation of 5:6 as pertaining to waking up from sleep only),
Ash-Shaafi`i,
At-Tabari, Al-Baghwi and Ibn Katheer (according to Dr. Zayd),
Ibn Al-Jawzi,
Dr. Mustafa Zayd.

_________________
A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Did the Sunna abrogate 5:6?
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2010, 13:53 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 04 May 2009, 16:10
Posts: 4558
Location: USA
Al-Khazraji, in his book نفس الصباح في غريب القرآن وناسخه ومنسوخه, volume 1, pages 302-305, states another reason some scholars opined that 5:6 was abrogated, namely, that the Prophet (PBUH) wiped his slippers at times instead of washing his feet. This was the reason used by Ash-Sha`bi, said An-Nahhaas.

Ibn Abbaas said the opposite: that 5:6 abrogated the Sunna and that washing the feet is mandatory. Al-Khazraji says that the consensus disagreed because of a report by Jareer ibn Abdillah Al-Bajli, who became a Muslim after Chapter 5 was revealed, who said, "I saw the Prophet (PBUH) wipe his slippers."

_________________
A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Did the Sunna abrogate 5:6?
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2010, 21:37 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 05 May 2009, 00:16
Posts: 1839
Location: USA
Linguistic wrote:
This case is about whether a Muslim must perform ablution before every prayer. The consensus is that ablution is only necessary after going to the bathroom.

Strictly speaking, the verse does not require ablution before every prayer since it does not specify how far ahead of time ablution should be made. Also strictly speaking, the verse does not necessitate ablution after going to the bathroom since it does not forbid going to the bathroom after ablution and before the prayer. Of course I am not advocating this. I am just showing how abrogation is made based on an interpretation of a verse rather than the letter of the verse.

_________________
To translate is the best way to understand


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Did the Sunna abrogate 5:6?
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2010, 19:30 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 04 May 2009, 16:10
Posts: 4558
Location: USA
Dr. Mustafa Zayd, in his book النسخ في القرآن الكريم, volume 2, pages 201-205 (items 1014-1018), rejects this claim and favors the interpretation of 5:6 by At-Tabari, Al-Baghwi and Ibn Katheer which is that ablution is recommended before each prayer because the prophet (PBUH) did so, but is mandatory only after going to the bathroom. He quotes an authentic hadeeth, narrated by Burayda ibn Al-Ħaşeeb Al-Aslami, in which the Prophet (PBUH) prayed all five prayers the day of the conquest of Mecca with one ablution. He was asked, "You did something you never did before!" He answered, "Deliberately I did it." Reported by Muslim, Abu-Daawood, At-Tirmizhi, An-Nasaa'i, Ibn Hanbal and Al-Bayhaqi.

Some scholars quote this hadeeth as evidence for abrogation, but Dr. Zayd sees it as evidence against it. His point is that the deliberate action of the Prophet (PBUH) was to dispel the notion that ablution is required before every prayer, even if one did not go to he bathroom. His example was to show that it was only an emphasized Sunna to do that. I agree.

_________________
A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 6 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
It is currently 28 Mar 2024, 14:23

All times are UTC

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group