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 Post subject: Did 8:34 abrogate 8:33?
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2010, 19:12 
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Ibn Al-Jawzi reports that

was claimed abrogated by the next verse,


He writes,

ذكر الآية الثالثة: قوله تعالى "وما كان الله ليعذبهم وأنت فيهم". أخبرنا ابن ناصر قال أبنا ابن أيوب قال أبنا ابن شاذان قال أبنا أبو بكر النجاد قال أبنا داود السجستاني قال بنا أحمد بن محمد قال بنا علي بن الحسين عن أبيه عن يزيد النحوي عن عكرمة عن ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما "وما كان الله ليعذبهم وأنت فيهم" نسختها الآية التي بعدها "وما لهم ألا يعذبهم الله"، وقد روى مثله عن الحسن وعكرمة، وهذا القول ليس بصحيح، لأن النسخ لا يدخل على الأخبار، وهذه الآية بينت أن كون الرسول فيهم منع نزول العذاب بهم وكون المؤمنين يستغفرون بينهم منع أيضا، والآية التي تليها بينت استحقاقهم العذاب لصدهم عن سبيل الله، غير أن كون الرسول والمؤمنين بينهم منع من تعجيل ذلك أو عمومه فالعجب من مدعي النسخ


He reports that Ibn Abbaas, Al-Hasan and Ikrima all said it was abrogated. He rejects that by arguing, correctly, that 8:33 stated that it's because the Prophet was still among them that He did not punish them, but 8:66 states that they deserve punishment. No abrogation, rather two complementary verses. Besides, 8:33 is a statement of fact; it does not have a ruling.

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 Post subject: Re: Did 8:34 abrogate 8:33?
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2010, 06:15 
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Linguistic wrote:
He reports that Ibn Abbaas, Al-Hasan and Ikrima all said it was abrogated. He rejects that by arguing, correctly, that 8:33 stated that it's because the Prophet was still among them that He did not punish them, but 8:66 states that they deserve punishment. No abrogation, rather two complementary verses. Besides, 8:33 is a statement of fact; it does not have a ruling.

There is clear evidence, sanctioned by the consensus of the originalists, that a number of narrations of abrogation by Ibn Abbas do not hold. Either he used the word "abrogate" in a more general sense, or the attribution to him is false, or he was expressing personal opinions that at times weren't correct.

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 Post subject: Who said what
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2010, 19:43 
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For:
Ibn Abbaas, Ikrima,
Al-Hasan,
Ibn Hazm Al-Andalusi,
Ibn Salaama.

Against:
The majority (according to An-Nahhaas and Makki),
Ibn Abbaas (according to Shu`la),
At-Tabari, Al-Aloosi, Ar-Raazi (according to Az-Zalmi),
Ibn Al-Jawzi,
An-Nahhaas,
Abu-Abdillah Shu`la,
Al-Haakim Abu-Sa`eed (according to Aş-Şa`di),
Makki and Al-Khazraji (implied),
Dr. Mustafa Zayd,
Dr. Az-Zalmi.

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 Post subject: Re: Did 8:34 abrogate 8:33?
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2013, 19:38 
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While Ibn Al-Jawzi's report in the OP attributes a claim of abrogation to Ibn Abbaas (RA), Abu-Abdillah Shu`la, in his book صفوة الراسخ في علم المنسوخ والناسخ, page 142, says the opposite. He says that Ibn Abbaas and others have said there is no abrogation here. He says that these scholars have argued that 8:33 asserts a Sunna of God: that He would not send punishment on a people until the prophet He sent to them and his followers are out of the town. The polytheists of Mecca were mocking the Prophet (PBUH) saying things like, "Where is that torment you keep warning us of?"

Shu`la says next that the next verse, claimed abrogator, confirms this Sunna: that now that the Prophet (PBUH) and the believers are out of Mecca then the punishment of God is due and it was done in the Battle of Badr.

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