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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2010, 17:30 
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In the epilogue of his excellent book بالحجة والبرهان لا نسخ في القرآن, pages 249-250, Al-Ghaali mentions three verses that Ibn Abbaas said that people have neglected,

And

And

Al-Ghaali comments that, by accepting abrogation, people have actually neglected a lot more verses they had no business neglecting. Al-Ghaali adds that most of the verses claimed abrogated are verses commanding mercy, goodwill, stopping bloodshed and protection of rights! I think that's an excellent summary and it cynically explains why some people claimed abrogation.

If that indeed was the motive of some abrogators, did they not read

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2010, 20:30 
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Ihaab Hasan Abduh opens his book استحالة وجود النسخ بالقرآن, pages 5-6, with a number of logical questions to those who advocated the abrogation doctrine:

  • Did God reveal His Book so that people would follow something else?
  • Does it square with God's wisdom that His Book would contain hundreds of abrogated rulings, without Him stating which ones those are and leaving the believers to the conflicting opinions of mortals about it?
  • Doesn't preserving the Book also require preserving its rulings?

He then draws the attention of the pro-abrogation folk that leaving a teaching or ruling of the Quran in favor of anything else makes them subject to these verses,

Indeed, these verses refer to Muslims, no doubt. "Deserting the Quran" surely includes annulling some of its rulings because of a misunderstanding, opinion, interpretation or a narration attributed to a human being. Authentic hadeeth, Ihaab maintains, cannot possibly contradict the Quran. Neither can it abrogate it.

I certainly concur. If, for the sake of argument, a hadeeth is rated authentic and its clear meaning is contradictory to the Quran, then I say the Quran abrogated it instead of the other way around.

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 01 Jul 2010, 20:36 
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Ihaab Abduh, in his book استحالة وجود النسخ بالقرآن, pages 12-14 quotes a couple of verses that a pro-abrogation scholar should pause at and wonder if maybe they apply to him!


Abrogation replaces the favor of God with something else, be it a less certain text or an interpretation.


Abrogation claims are not free from personal desires, as demonstrated in many of the cases discussed in this forum.

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 02 Jul 2010, 04:10 
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Linguistic wrote:
I think that's an excellent summary and it cynically explains why some people claimed abrogation.

If that indeed was the motive of some abrogators, did they not read

Fantastic!

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2010, 03:48 
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Ihaab Abduh, in his book اسثحالة وجود النسخ بالقرآن, page 182, cites this verse,

in his argument that the Quran alone is the guidance. I'd add that the warning in the verse is against following people's whims after knowledge has come. That is the risk of believing in the abrogation doctrine: No alliance from God and no support.

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2010, 22:07 
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In Chapter 43, God reassures His Messenger (PBUH) that he was given the truth and that he should hold tight to it,


I wonder if one of the questions from God to the pro-abrogation folk will be, "Why did you abrogate My rulings?" An indefensible position to be in, may God save us from it.

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 10 Jul 2010, 19:16 
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Linguistic wrote:
In Chapter 43, God reassures His Messenger (PBUH) that he was given the truth and that he should hold tight to it, 43:43-44

This is a good piece of evidence from the Quran against abrogation. I'll refer to it in the other thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2010, 07:23 
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Pragmatic wrote:
Linguistic wrote:
In Chapter 43, God reassures His Messenger (PBUH) that he was given the truth and that should hold tight to it, 43:43-44

This is a good piece of evidence from the Quran against abrogation. I'll refer to it in the other thread.

It's been argued by the proponents of the notion that the Sunna may abrogate the Quran that "what was revealed to you" is the Quran and the Hadeeth. It's a valid point. Of course the nature of revelation is different between the Quran and the Hadeeth. The Quran was sent down from heaven, carried by Gabriel and impressed upon the Prophet letter by letter. The Hadeeth, on the other hand, was inspired to the Prophet in much the same way as one would suddenly get a great idea. And the inspiration was of a meaning, rather than words. The words were not divine; they were the Prophet's own.

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2010, 05:44 
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Another salient verse that a Muslim should pause at is

The verse clearly says only God can rule and judge and that His Book is detailed. Therefore, no one, not even the Prophet (PBUH) can rule contrary to it. I find this verse a most compelling evidence refuting that the Sunna (or consensus or whatever) can abrogate the Quran.

Now, someone might ask, what about this verse?

Does it not give ruling and judgment authority to the prophet? Of course, but the two verses must be considered together. Doing so leads to the following conclusions:

  1. The Prophet would never rule contrary to God. That is why whoever obeys the Prophet obeys God because the prophet ordered only what God orders.

    Therefore, a hadeeth that contradicts the Quran must be unauthentic.

  2. But if the hadeeth talks about something not mentioned in the Quran, or details a generality mentioned in the Quran, and that hadeeth can be authenticated, then we must follow that hadeeth.

    An example would be that daily prayers are five, when they are prayed, how many bowings each, what to say in them, what do we do if we miss one, what do we do if we miss a bowing or offer excess bowings, what if we're traveling and find it particularly difficult to settle down long enough to pray, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2010, 17:59 
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In his book حقيقة النسخ وطلاقة النص في القرآن, page 20, Jamaal Saalih `Ataaya says that the abrogation doctrine is "an attack on the Book of God, casting doubt on it, in preparation for annulling it." He adds a conclusion, which saves the face of many pro-abrogation folk, namely, "those who are working for abrogation are two teams: Enemies and the ignorant."

Indeed, it is hard to believe that so many wonderful people would all agree on a doctrine that is so shaky and easy to disprove unless they simply did not understand the verses they thought were abrogated.

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