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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2010, 19:53 
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Jamaal `Ataaya, in his book حقيقة النسخ وطلاقة النص في القرآن, page 389, quotes Dr. Abdul-Hameed Abu-Sulaymaan from his book أزمة العقل المسلم, page 90, arguing that the assumption that a mortal, such as a Sahaabi, can tell that a verse has been abrogated, gives license to any other mortal to do the same for any other verse, until the entire book is abrogated.

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2010, 04:29 
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In this book, the author dedicated a full chapter (pages 129-144) to discussing the negative consequences of the abrogation doctrine. I wasn't able to go through the chapter because of time constraints, but I thought I should leave a pointer here so that we look at it at some point.

While we are on the subject of pointers :), the author dedicated the following chapter (pages 145-155) to "How did this happen?" and the chapter after that (pages 156-167) to debating the wisdom of abrogation and the importance of knowing the abrogated and abrogating.

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2010, 17:10 
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Pragmatic wrote:
In this book, the author dedicated a full chapter (pages 129-144) to discussing the negative consequences of the abrogation doctrine. I wasn't able to go through the chapter because of time constraints, but I thought I should leave a pointer here so that we look at it at some point.

I picked up where you left off, so here are some more details.

Haani Taahir, in his book تنزيه آي القرآن عن النسخ والنقصان, pages 130-144, lists many negative consequences of the abrogation doctrine:

  • Suspending rulings of God. As an example, the penalty for lesbian sex in 4:15, which God called the debauchery. God ordered that women who engaged in lesbian sex be locked up at home, so that they do not influence other women. By claiming 4:15 abrogated, the scholars have dropped the penalty for lesbian sex and thus allowed the debauchery! Another example he gives is 2:240. The abrogation claim here deprives a widow from her God-given right to stay at her late husband's house for up to a year and be supported from his estate. A third example is 4:90. The abrogation claim here turns Islam from a peaceful co-existence religion to an adversary one.

  • Encouraging sloppy analysis! As soon as a student of the Quran notices what appears to be a contradiction between two verses, he is allowed, by virtue of the abrogation doctrine, to claim that one of them abrogated the other. If, on the other hand, he knew for certain that no abrogation has ever taken place in the Quran, he would then have to work harder to understand the verses and gain valuable knowledge in the process.

    I'd add that Islamophobes and other adversaries of Islam do that jump to conclusion all the time. While it may be expected from them, it surely should not be expected from serious Muslim scholars.

  • Preferring narrations to the Quran. Those scholars who opined that the Sunna, most of which is uncertain in its occurrence (ظنية الورود), has abrogated the Quran which is certain in its occurrence (قطعي الورود). While those scholars do not say it out loud, they are implying that narrations made by a few people (آحاد) are better in their view than verses transmitted by thousands to thousands (متواتر). It implies that they hold narrations holier than the Quran.

    Taahir criticizes those scholars who saw no problem in accepting that entire chapters of the Quran are gone, while they scream at anybody who tells them that a hadeeth in Muslim's compilation may not be authentic because it contradicts the Quran. He quotes Abu-Şuhayb Al-Karmi in مقدمة مسند الإمام أحمد, his introduction to Musnad, Ibn Hanbal's compilation of hadeeths, page 360, saying that no scholar of the third and fourth centuries A.H. has ever said that all hadeeths listed in Al-Bukhaari and Muslim's compilations were authentic. What they said instead is that those two books are the most authentic after the Quran.

    He quotes Al-Ghazaali from his book السنة النبوية بين أهل الفقه وأهل الحديث, pages 22,24,103 and 128, sharply criticizing the scholars who advocate that the Hadeeth may abrogate the Quran.

  • Presenting the religion as opportunistic. He says that when Muslims were a few, Chapter 109 asks the disbelievers to leave Muslims alone, free to worship God as they believe Him to be. Then, when Muslims have become plenty, how can the same Book not expect the same? How can it not accept polytheists who wish to be left alone, free to worship their gods?

  • Multiplication of jurisprudential disagreements. Jurists have disagreed on nearly every juristic issue they tackled. The abrogation notion can only add another dimension to their disagreements.

  • Wasting time discussing nuances that have no value, and I'd add: no basis. Things like: Can consensus or analogy abrogate the Quran? Can the abrogating become itself abrogated?

    Were scholars so idle handed that they had to fill their time?

    Likewise, they wasted time and energy writing books that added no value, only harm and doubt.

  • Presenting Islam as a violent, intolerant religion. I'd add: backward. No wonder Islamophobes are many.

  • Adding an impossible condition to qualify an analyst. Since the knowledge of the abrogated and the abrogating is considered by most scholars as necessary before an analyst may begin analysis, that knowledge must be available, but it's not. There is no agreement on any single abrogation claim, let alone the notion itself.

  • Weakening the trust Muslims should have in their religion's rulings. If nobody truly knows what, if any, was abrogated, then how can we know what to follow and what not? Taahir makes an excellent point: In human laws, a law is canceled when it is found to be unconstitutional. The constitution is the reference of validity. The Quran is the constitution and reference for Muslims. Any ruling that contradicts it is therefore unconstitutional! If any part of it may or may not have been abrogated, then how can it be a reference?

  • Giving Islam's adversaries an easy way to attack it. If Muslims themselves believe that parts of the Quran were literally gone and others are gone in ruling, then the Book was not preserved as it claims it will be.

  • Enticing competition between scholars who could find more abrogated verses! That is like playing "Where is Waldo" with the holy Book of God.

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 27 Sep 2010, 01:19 
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What a fantastic post. All the points are hits. Thank you.

Linguistic wrote:
Enticing competition between scholars who could find more abrogated verses! That is like playing "Where is Waldo" with the holy Book of God.

I thought of exactly that expression more than once when I was reading the convoluted attempts to 'find' abrogated verses. Although I was reluctant to use the expression, that is exactly what was happening.

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 18 Dec 2010, 01:27 
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I was reading Chapter 7 recently, and came across this verse,

Emphasis on "And that you say about God what you do not know"!

This study of the abrogation doctrine made me wonder many times how so many scholars have dared to "say about God what they do not know", by claiming that He abrogated some of His rulings and left the abrogated rulings for us to guess!

Equally shocking, is how they fiercely defended the abrogation doctrine and their fellow pro-abrogation folk, and fiercely attacked the one man, may God reward him handsomely, who did not agree with them and proved them wrong in most of their claims, Abu-Muslim Al-Asfahaani, may God bless his soul! He deprived them all from being able to claim that there is consensus about the abrogation doctrine.

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 26 Dec 2010, 08:03 
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Linguistic wrote:
And that you say about God what you do not know"!

Notice that the word used is "know." If a scholar is asked "do you know that God abrogated verse such and such?" and wants to answer this question in good conscience, what would the answer be? Notice also the other offenses in 7:33 that are grouped with the quoted offense. Pretty scary.

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 27 Dec 2010, 18:41 
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Al-Jabri ends his book لا نسخ في القرآن...لماذا؟, starting at page 144, with a profound observation: The verses the scholars said were abrogated are verses that establish civilized, enlightened and progressive principles long before the modern world adopted them!

  • Social justice:
    • Bridging the economic gap between classes of people in a way that enhances their economic lives.
    • Equity in wealth distribution, in a gentle and compassionate manner.
    • Care for the orphans, widows, divorcées and servants.
  • Politics:
    • Peace.
    • Positive neutrality.
    • Rules of engagement in war.
    • Negotiation, treaties and alliances.
    • Reconciliation and armistice.
    • Care for prisoners of war.
    • Resolution of ethnic tensions.
    • Diplomacy.
    • Meeting with VIPs.
  • The law:
    • Vetting of witnesses.
    • The character of marriage and divorce.
    • Options of arbitration.
    • Proper retaliation.
    • Women's rights.
    • Guarding of public conduct.
  • Education:
    • Planning.
    • Curriculum.
    • Gradual teaching.
    • The company you keep.
    • Acting on impulse or bad thoughts.

I plan, God willing, to post the details of the above points in the topics that address the pertaining verses.

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 28 Dec 2010, 19:11 
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Linguistic wrote:
Al-Jabri ends his book لا نسخ في القرآن...لماذا؟, starting at page 144, with a profound observation: The verses the scholars said were abrogated are verses that establish civilized, enlightened and progressive principles long before the modern world adopted them!

This is a great observation. We have suspected bias in some of the abrogation claims, including which verse was the abrogating and which was the abrogated in cases where the timing of the verses was debatable. However, if Al-Jabri managed to make a complete case of this, it is very much worth including after our independent verification.

People often want to claim the glory of a moral principle without having to abide by the obligation that the principle entails.

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2011, 06:02 
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This verse has a lot of implications against those who have claimed abrogation based on their perception of contradictions between verses,

Some of the those implications are:
  • Those who perceive contradictions in the Quran have not really studied it well.
  • They are implicitly accusing the Quran of being authored by other than God! Or,
  • They are attributing to God that He may contradict Himself.

What humans write or say tends to have many contradictions. It is the nature of man. But what God reveals has no contradictions and can't have them.

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 06 Apr 2011, 06:28 
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I came across this hadeeth, reported by many and rated Hasan (Sound) by Al-Albaani and Mashhoor (well known) by Ibn Taymiya,

خرج رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم على أصحابه وهم يتناظرون في القدر، ورجل يقول: ألم يقل الله كذا، ورجل يقول: ألم يقل الله كذا، فكأنما فقئ في وجهه حب الرمان، فقال: أبهذا أمرتم؟ إنما أهلك من كان قبلكم بهذا، ضربوا كتاب الله بعضه ببعض، وإنما نزل كتاب الله ليصدق بعضه بعضا لا ليكذب بعضه بعضا، انظروا ما أمرتم به فافعلوه وما نهيتم عنه فاجتنبوه

Translation:
The Prophet (PBUH) came out one day to find two Sahaaba arguing about Al-Qadar (precision of timing and amount of everything that God does). One man says, "Did God not say such?" And the other man says, "And did God also not say such?" The Prophet (PBUH) got so angry, you would think seeds of pomegranate burst in his face! He said to them, "Is that what you have been commanded? That is what destroyed those who were before you: they knocked parts of the Book of God with other parts. The Book of God was not revealed so that parts of it knock other parts; it was revealed so that all its parts affirm each other. See what you have been commanded and do it and what you have been forbidden and avoid it."

This hadeeth implies many dire consequences to believers in the abrogation doctrine:
  • Any talk about contradictions in the Quran makes the Prophet (PBUH) furiously angry!
  • Those who believe that verses cancel other verses set themselves up for destruction!
  • All commands and prohibitions in the Quran must be complied with.

Belief in the abrogation doctrine is dangerous to your faith.

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