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 Post subject: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2010, 17:00 
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Admin note: This topic was split from the "origins of the abrogation doctrine" topic in order to focus here on the unintended results of defending the abrogation doctrine.

In this topic, we aim to list all of the consequences, good or bad, of the claim that there are verses in the text of the Quran that have been abrogated, which we shall refer to as the abrogation doctrine.

I'll start with these two verses,

And

I acknowledge that the context of both is not abrogation, but 10:59 states the principle that people are not authorized to say what is lawful and what is unlawful. To claim that a verse has been abrogated, and that verse contains a ruling, is tantamount to making a ruling unlawful.

Also, verse 10:64 clearly states that the words of God are unchangeable. I know the verse most likely means the decrees of God, but the wording is general enough to extrapolate to rulings in verses, isn't it?

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2010, 05:30 
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Pragmatic wrote:
From all of this, it seems that the interpretation of 2:106 by the companions of Ibn Massoud (أصحاب ابن مسعود) is the original basis for the belief that there are abrogated verses in the text of the Quran.

Thanks, Pragmatic, for the elaborate study. It is evident, therefore, that abrogation of ruling while keeping the verse in the text is a theory of the early scholars and that it does not have any foundations in the Quran or in the Sunna. Even if a Sunna abrogated another Sunna and both hadeeths were reported in collection books, there is no rationale to extrapolate that to the Quran without evidence. Opinion is not evidence, and to declare a verse no longer enforceable is about as serious as one can get, yet many scholars did just that. Verses 5:44,45 and 47 all have stern words for من لم يحكم بما أنزل الله (those who do not judge by what God sent down). If we declare a ruling in a verse not applicable, we run that risk, don't we?

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2010, 05:38 
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Linguistic wrote:
Verses 5:44,45 and 47 all have stern words for من لم يحكم بما أنزل الله (those who do not judge by what God sent down). If we declare a ruling in a verse not applicable, we run that risk, don't we?

Excellent point!

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2010, 04:56 
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As I continue reading the Quran, I keep finding verses that tell me with a loud voice that there is no abrogation in the Quran! Consider,



If somebody reads a verse that has a ruling and then decides that the ruling has been changed, he may find himself falling under the category of people who "adjust" God's rulings! Not a thrilling prospect.

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2010, 05:01 
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Linguistic wrote:
As I continue reading the Quran, I keep finding verses that tell me with a loud voice that there is no abrogation in the Quran! Consider 13:41. If somebody reads a verse that has a ruling and then decides that the ruling has been changed, he may find himself falling under the category of people who "adjust" God's rulings! Not a thrilling prospect.

Nice angle.

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 17 Mar 2010, 05:10 
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Division between Muslims is an inevitable result of the claim of abrogation in the Quran. Scholars have differed about which and how many verses were abrogated and that disagreement continues even today. God has warned all Muslims against this very thing when He said,

And

And

And there are more. He also resolved the matter by telling us that only He resolves disagreements:

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 17 Mar 2010, 15:34 
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Linguistic wrote:
Division between Muslims is an inevitable result of the claim of abrogation in the Quran. Scholars have differed about which and how many verses were abrogated and that disagreement continues even today. God has warned all Muslims against this very thing when He said, verse 2:176 and verse 3:105 and verse 40:35 and there are more. He also resolved the matter by telling us that only He resolves disagreements: verse 42:10

Spot on. Verse 2:176 in particular hits the abrogation doctrine at the core.

I understand this thread better now. It shows that "abrogation is serious business" from a theological point of view, complementing the practical point of view.

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2010, 05:25 
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God says in the holy Quran,

Which clearly mandates that the rulings of the Quran must be followed in judgments and that any inclinations away from that are warned against. I'd categorize abrogation of some rulings of the Quran as a "temptation away from some of what God has revealed."

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2010, 05:30 
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God says in the holy Quran,

Which clearly states that no one can share with God in dispensing rulings. Thus, no mortal has the authority to decide if a ruling of God has been abrogated. Only God can, and by delegation from Him, so can His messenger, peace be upon him.

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 Post subject: Re: Consequences of abrogation
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2010, 06:20 
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Linguistic wrote:
God says in the holy Quran,

Which clearly mandates that the rulings of the Quran must be followed in judgments and that any inclinations away from that are warned against. I'd categorize abrogation of some rulings of the Quran as a "temptation away from some of what God has revealed."

I agree. Good evidence.

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