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 Post subject: Did 63:6 or 9:84 abrogate 9:80?
PostPosted: 18 Feb 2010, 20:49 
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Ibn Al-Jawzi reports that Ibn Abbaas said that

was abrogated by


while An-Nahhaas said that some scholars said it was abrogated by


This is what Ibn Al-Jawzi wrote,

ذكر الآية الثامنة: قوله تعالى "استغفر لهم أو لا تستغفر لهم". لفظ هذه الآية لفظ الأمر وليس كذلك، وإنما المعنى إن استغفرت لهم وإن لم تستغفر لهم لا يغفر الله لهم، فهو كقوله تعالى "أنفقوا طوعا أو كرها"، فعلى هذه الآية محكمة، هذا قول المحققين. وقد ذهب قوم إلى أن ظاهر اللفظ يعطي أنه إن زاد على السبعين رجى لهم الغفران ثم نسخت بقوله "سواء عليهم أستغفرت لهم أم لم تستغفر لهم لن يغفر الله لهم"، فروى الضحاك عن ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما "استغفر لهم أو لا تستغفر لهم" نسخت بقوله "سواء عليهم أستغفرت لهم أم لم تستغفر لهم لن يغفر الله لهم". أخبرنا عبد الوهاب الحافظ قال أبنا أبو طاهر الباقلاوي قال أبنا أبو علي بن شاذان قال أبنا عبد الرحمن بن الحسن قال بنا إبراهيم بن الحسين قال بنا آدم قال بنا ورقاء عن ابن أبي نجيح عن مجاهد قال: لما نزلت "إن تستغفر لهم سبعين مرة فلن يغفر الله لهم" قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم: سأزيدن على سبعين مرة، فأنزل الله تعالى في سورة المنافقين "لن يغفر الله لهم" عزما.
وقد حكى أبو جعفر النحاس أن بعض العلماء قال فنسخت بقوله "ولا تصل على أحد منهم مات أبدا". قلت والصحيح إحكام الآية على ما سبق


Ibn Al-Jawzi refutes the claim saying that 9:80 is not an imperative, but a statement from God, thus it cannot be abrogated. He said that this style of statement God has used elsewhere, such as,


I concur.

Mujaahid said something interesting. He said that when 9:80 was revealed, the Prophet (PBUH) said, "I will ask more than seventy times!" Mujaahid therefore believes that 63:6 came to put an end to any misunderstanding about 9:80. That is explanation, not abrogation and it appears that Mujaahid so understood. I concur.

The claim about 9:84 was quickly dismissed by Ibn Al-Jawzi favoring the above arguments.

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 Post subject: Re: Did 63:6 abrogate 9:80?
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2010, 10:15 
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Another attribution to Ibn-Abbas, may God be pleased with him, of an easily refutable abrogation claim.

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 Post subject: Who said what
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2010, 21:10 
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For:
Ibn Abbaas,
Ibn Umar (implied),
Ibn Salaama,
Abu-Bakr Al-Hamdaani.

Against:
Mujaahid (implied),
An-Nahhaas,
Ibn Al-Jawzi,
Dr. Mustafa Zayd.

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 Post subject: Re: Did 63:6 or 9:84 abrogate 9:80?
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2010, 15:19 
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Al-Qaasim ibn Salaam, in his book الناسخ والمنسوخ في القرآن والسنة, pages 208-209, quotes a hadeeth without saying who reported it or how authentic it is, that suggests that 9:80 was not abrogated. The hadeeth is narrated by Ibn Umar and it says:

When Abdullah ibn Ubayy died, his son came to the Prophet (PBUH) and asked him to give him his shirt to bury his father in. The Prophet (PBUH) gave it to him. The son said to the Prophet (PBUH), "If you'd like to pray for him, let me know." The Prophet was about o pray for him when Umar pulled him and said, "Did not God forbid you to pray for the hypocrites?" The Prophet (PBUH) said, "I'm between two choices: ask forgiveness for them or do not ask forgiveness for them." And he prayed for him. Another version of the hadeeth adds that Umar said, "I'm amazed at how daring I was with the Messenger of God that day."

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 Post subject: Re: Did 63:6 or 9:84 abrogate 9:80?
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2010, 17:15 
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Linguistic wrote:
Mujaahid said something interesting. He said that when 9:80 was revealed, the Prophet (PBUH) said, "I will ask more than seventy times!" Mujaahid therefore believes that 63:6 came to put an end to any misunderstanding about 9:80. That is explanation, not abrogation and it appears that Mujaahid so understood. I concur.

Dr. Mustafa Zayd wrote the details of this narration, in his book النسخ في القرآن الكريم, volume 2, pages 230-240 (items 1094-1097). When Abdullah ibn Ubayy ibn Salool died, the prophet (PBUH) was invited to pray on him (the funeral prayer). When Umar saw that the Prophet (PBUH) was about to go ahead and pray on this hypocrite, he jumped over to him and reminded him of what ibn Salool had said. The Prophet(PBUH) smiled and said, "I've been given a choice and I chose. If I know that if I asked more than seventy times, he would be forgiven, I'd ask it." The Prophet (PBUH) prayed on ibn Salool and left. Shortly thereafter, verse 9:84 was revealed.

Dr. Zayd says that this narration is authentic. This means that the understanding that 9:80 offered a choice was the Prophet's (PBUH). He had an enormous capacity for forgiveness and an almost desperate desire that his people escape punishment. That is why, it seems to me, he hanged on this unlikely interpretation of 9:80. But God decisively corrected it with 9:84, and the Prophet (PBUH) never again prayed the funeral prayer on hypocrites.

One might ask, "why then didn't God reveal 9:84 at the same time, so that this matter is unambiguous from the beginning?" My humble answer is that God wanted what happened to happen, so that we all know how forgiving the Prophet (PBUH) was and how undeserving of forgiveness the hypocrites are! It is also an exercise in proper interpretation; we should not interpret verses beyond their obvious meaning just because we wish our interpretation be true.

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