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 Post subject: Re: Interpretation of the Abrogation Verse 2:106
PostPosted: 18 Feb 2010, 05:24 
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Pragmatic wrote:
The interpretation of نسي
...
but I thought this alternative interpretation is worth mentioning since it is based on solid evidence within the Quran itself.

Excellent point and it adds support to the historical narration that some verses that used to be recited were not written down, i.e., they were abandoned, as the Prophet (PBUH) was dictating the Quran to the scribes. That was the basis which Uthmaan ibn Affaan, may God have been pleased with him, relied on when he sorted out all written copies and burned the ones that differed from the original left by the Prophet (PBUH) with Hafsa and Faatima, may God have been pleased with them.

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 Post subject: Re: Interpretation of the Abrogation Verse 2:106
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2010, 18:55 
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The Conditional ما in the Quran

To shed light on any subtle semantics of the conditional construct in 2:106, let us consider other verses in the Quran that use the same construct. Please add any verses that I missed.






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 Post subject: Re: Interpretation of the Abrogation Verse 2:106
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2010, 20:29 
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Pragmatic wrote:
The Conditional ما in the Quran

Another verse that comes to mind, having ما as a conditional article is this:

Notice the jussive mood of the verb يمسك

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 Post subject: Re: Interpretation of the Abrogation Verse 2:106
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2010, 05:07 
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Official interpretation of the Supreme Islamic Council of Egypt:

١٠٦- "ما ننسخ من آية أو ننسها نأت بخير منها أو مثلها ألم تعلم أن الله على كل شىء قدير". التفسير: ولقد طلبوا منك يا محمد أن تأتيهم بالمعجزات التى جاءهم بها موسى وأنبياء بنى إسرائيل، وحسبنا أننا أيدناك بالقرآن، وأننا إذا تركنا تأييد نبى متأخر بمعجزة كانت لنبى سابق، أو أنسينا الناس أثر هذه المعجزة فإننا نأتى على يديه بخير منها أو مثلها فى الدلالة على صدقه، فالله على كل شئ قدير


Translation:
They ask you, Muhammad, to bring them the miracles which Moses brought and the prophets of the Children of Israel. It is sufficient for Us that We supported you with the Quran. When We leave out supporting a latter prophet with miracles of a former prophet, or We cause people to forget the effects of such miracle, We bring at his hands a better or similar miracle proving his truthfulness, as God is over everything powerful.

Thus, their interpretation has nothing to do with abrogation, but instead with signs of prophethood. The sign of Muhammad (PBUH), the Quran, is better than all former signs.

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 Post subject: Re: Interpretation of the Abrogation Verse 2:106
PostPosted: 01 Mar 2010, 01:06 
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Pragmatic wrote:
The Conditional ما in the Quran

I went through all appearances of ما in the Quran, and identified the cases of the conditional ما. There are exactly 11 verses where it appears, 5 of which have already been mentioned in previous posts (2:106, 2:197, 2:272, 8:60, 35:2). The remaining six are:







In all cases without a single exception, the object of the conditioned verb has the من article in it. Some of the conditional constructs have جواب الشرط as a verbal sentence (like in 2:106) and some have it as a nominal sentence.

BTW, many of these cases were not parsed correctly in the Quran parsing site. They seem to miss the مجزوم بحذف النون rule and parse the verb as مرفوع even though it is missing النون. They seem to do that when جواب الشرط is not a verbal sentence.

Disclaimer: I may have missed some cases, since there is a huge number of verses that have ما in one form or another, and I had to read all of them looking for the conditional constructs.

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 Post subject: Re: Interpretation of the Abrogation Verse 2:106
PostPosted: 01 Mar 2010, 01:36 
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Pragmatic wrote:
I went through all appearances of ما in the Quran, and identified the cases of the conditional ما. There are exactly 11 verses where it appears
...
In all cases without a single exception, the object of the conditioned verb has the من article in it.

Good work, Pragmatic.

Yes, the article من which normally is a preposition meaning "from," often serves the purpose of indicating the minutest amount of something. That is the pattern that you have noticed in all the cases you found. For instance, in 2:110, God tells us that even the smallest good we advance, we will see its reward with God, thus encouraging us to do good however small it may look to us.

Now, does this utility of the article من apply to 2:106? I say yes. God tells us in

that the sign of our creation is small compared to the sign of the heaven and the earth, though both are easy for God to do. Thus, in 2:106, God tells us that He may remove a sign, however small, or cause it to be forgotten, but when He does He always replaces it with a sign that is better for us or equally good.

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 Post subject: Re: Interpretation of the Abrogation Verse 2:106
PostPosted: 01 Mar 2010, 02:19 
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Linguistic wrote:
Yes, the article من which normally is a preposition meaning "from," often serves the purpose of indicating the minutest amount of something.
...
Now, does this utility of the article من apply to 2:106? I say yes.

Interesting angle, which I haven't seen in any of the books that I read so far. You are right that it is conceivable that من in 2:106 means 'from', hence the object of abrogation might be part of a verse, although the evidence of the use of the conditional ما in the Quran points to the object of abrogation in 2:106 being a verse, big or small. I stand corrected in the sweeping statement I made in this post.

Having said that, let me note that this does not take away from the force of the argument that abrogation applies to a verse, not to a ruling (an essential argument as it is sufficient by itself to establish the thesis of this project per this post). The main argument in the literature for making the object of abrogation a ruling rather than a verse is that nothing can be better than a Quranic verse, therefore "better" in 2:106 must refer to something other than a verse. People went on to argue that a ruling fits nicely since a stricter ruling can be better because of its higher reward, and a lighter ruling can be better because of reducing the burden.

The ambiguity about من in 2:106 doesn't help their argument. Even if the object of the verb abrogate in 2:106 is something other than a verse, the object of the comparative better than is patently a verse per the wording of 2:106. The comparative article in Arabic is منها whose object is syntactically feminine hence refers back to the word 'verse' (feminine in Arabic) whereas if it were referring to part of a verse it would have been the masculine version منه since the generic من آية would be referred to as masculine in Arabic.

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 Post subject: Re: Interpretation of the Abrogation Verse 2:106
PostPosted: 01 Mar 2010, 03:00 
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Pragmatic wrote:
it is conceivable that من in 2:106 means 'from', hence the object of abrogation might be part of a verse,

I wasn't actually arguing that. I was arguing that من آية means "the smallest sign". But, even if it means "a part of a verse", the part abrogated had to be replaced, per what the rest of the verse states. It then begs the question: why not just replace the whole verse, repeating the parts that were not abrogated and changing the part that was?

I can also see some people saying that من آية means "any aspect of the verse", by which they may claim that the ruling is an aspect of the verse that can be abrogated. If that were true, the question remains: Why keep the verse? If it contains a ruling, that would be very confusing to people if the ruling is no longer to be enforced. That is not to mention that we have no way of knowing any of that since neither God nor His messenger has told us what, if any, was abrogated or how to find out. That seems like a major detail that neither God nor His Messenger would leave for Muslims to guess!

All that said, the context actually confirms that من آية does mean "the smallest sign" or "even one sign". This is the preceding verse,

Notice the words من خير? They means "the smallest good" or "any good at all."

Pragmatic wrote:
The main argument in the literature for making the object of abrogation a ruling rather than a verse is that nothing can be better than a Quranic verse, therefore "better" in 2:106 must refer to something other than a verse. People went on to argue that a ruling fits nicely since a stricter ruling can be better because of its higher reward, and a lighter ruling can be better because of reducing the burden.

I offered in my previous post my humble explanation of how a sign can be better than another. In addition to what I said earlier, I can also quote this verse for more evidence,

In which God clearly declares that some signs as bigger than other.

The insistence that آية in 2:106 means verse is what is causing this round-about arguing. The notion of abrogating a ruling has support in the Sunna, but not in the Quran.

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 Post subject: Re: Interpretation of Ibn Katheer
PostPosted: 15 Mar 2010, 04:29 
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Linguistic wrote:
:تفسير ابن كثير
قال ابن أبي طلحة عن ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما "ما ننسخ من آية" ما نبدل من آية.
وقال ابن جريج عن مجاهد "ما ننسخ من آية" أي ما نمحو من آية.
وقال ابن أبي نجيح عن مجاهد "ما ننسخ من آية" قال نثبت خطها ونبدل حكمها حدث به عن أصحاب عبد الله بن مسعود رضي الله عنهم. وقال ابن أبي حاتم: وروي عن أبي العالية ومحمد بن كعب القرظي نحو ذلك.

Three remarks:

1. The interpretation of Ibn Abbas doesn't have the ruling-versus-verse angle.

2. Zaid has more attribution routes for the narration of the companions of Ibn Masseoud.

3. There are two narrations of Mujahed in the above quote, and one of them says 'erase' so I don't understand how he also gave the other ruling-verse interpretation.

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 Post subject: Re: Interpretation of the Abrogation Verse 2:106
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2010, 17:48 
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Pragmatic wrote:
There is one linguistic point that convinces me that this is the correct interpretation of 2:106. The Arabic word " خير " is used in both 2:105 and 2:106. The word means both "good" and "better" and also "choice" as an adjective (describing something chosen for quality). In 2:105, "خير" is what the disbelievers don't like us to get from God, and in 2:106, "خير" describes what God promises to bring if He abrogates a verse. Coming in two adjacent verses, I believe that "خير" is referring to the same thing in both verses which would be the Quran, and this supports the interpretation that 2:106 is about the Quran abrogating previous books.

Just a note that although the word "خير" in 2:106 is used in a comparative sense, it still implies that what is being brought is "خير" in the absolute. The comparative construct in Arabic implies that the items being compared share the attribute that is being compared in addition to one of them having more of that attribute than the other. Here is a quote about comparative constructs in general, authored by Dr. M. M. Ziyaad and appearing in http://www.drmosad.com/index75.htm.

اسم مشتق من الفعل على وزن " أفعل " للدلالة على أن شيئين اشتركا في صفة معينة وزاد أحدهما على الآخر في تلك الصفة

Thanks, Linguistic, for the link.

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