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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2010, 07:16 
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Linguistic wrote:
Ibn Hazm Al-Andalusi wrote:
God willed that He forbid things for a while then allow them. There is no particular reason for that, just like there is no particular reason for sending Muhammad (PBUH) at the time He sent him and not before, or like there is no particular reason for the prayers to be five and not three or seven.

Again, doesn't address the abrogation doctrine, but rather God's free will. Rejecting the abrogation doctrine is not a rejection of God's power or free will; it's rejection of a concocted doctrine that cannot be proven.

Al-Jabri dedicates several pages early in his book (pages 28-34) to the opinions of Ibn Hazm, singling him out for significant emphasis. When Al-Jabri discussed the above quote, he provided the context of what Ibn Hazm said before, leading to the quote. Here is my translation of part of what Ibn Hazm said according to Al-Jabri (page 31):

  • If the wisdom is total lifting of the wording of some of the abrogated so that no people would be misguided by it, why did God leave the wording of some of the abrogated to misguide some?
  • What makes what was lifted more fit to be lifted than what was left in wording among the abrogated, which confused groups of the religious people?
  • What makes what was left in wording more fit to be left than what was lifted in wording among the abrogated?

These questions strike me as being at the heart of the abrogation doctrine since they very specifically contrast "lifting the verse" and "lifting the ruling but not the recitation." It seems that Ibn Hazm was conflicted about that. He followed by the quoted statement which Al-Jabri outright mocks as the easy way out, invoking that faith in abrogation is a form of worship and that God can do anything He wants to do. Al-Jabri counters by saying that God can also be unfair, but that doesn't mean that He is unfair.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2010, 02:28 
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In Chapter 5, page 80, of his book فتح المنان في نسخ القرآن, Ali Hasan Al-Areedh writes about people's stance regarding abrogation. He lists six stances, the third of which is,
الثالث: جائز عقلا وواقع سمعا بين الشرائع المختلفة، وفي الشريعة المحمدية لكنه واقع في سنة رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، وغير واقع في القرآن الكريم وهو رأي بعض علماء المسلمين المحدثين

Translation:
"Third: It is possible logically and has happened in prior laws, and in the Muhammadan law but only in the Sunna. It did not happen in the Noble Quran. That is the opinion of some modern-day Muslim scholars."

That is precisely what we have advocated in this project. Unfortunately, Al-Areedh does not elaborate further on this and does not name all who took that position. The only one he mentions is Imaam Muhammad Abduh.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2010, 04:07 
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Linguistic wrote:
That is precisely what we have advocated in this project.

Indeed, assuming that they are talking about the text of the Quran, which is likely. There is 16:101 to contend with if one talks about all Quranic revelations even ones that may have not made it to the text.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 27 Apr 2010, 16:46 
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According to this article,
http://www.mmf-4.com/vb/t3733.html (Admin note: Always turn on your malware protection when visiting external web sites),
Noted Scholar Dr. Yoosuf Al-Qaradhaawi appears to have said that there is no abrogation in the Quran.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 27 Apr 2010, 17:44 
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Linguistic wrote:
According to this article,
http://www.mmf-4.com/vb/t3733.html (Admin note: Always turn on your malware protection when visiting external web sites),
Noted Scholar Dr. Yoosuf Al-Qaradhaawi appears to have said that there is no abrogation in the Quran.

Good find. This adds to the list of anti-abrogation big names since the late 19th century. It also shows how anti-abrogation scholars tend to be restrained in what they say when they express their opinions. If someone thinks that Zaid has not sufficiently narrowed down abrogation, there is little chance that they see any verses in the Quran as abrogated.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 27 Apr 2010, 23:04 
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Pragmatic wrote:
I wanted to post my opinion that the hostile attitude towards those who disagreed with the abrogation doctrine, which can be seen in the abusive language openly used against them in the theological literature, may have inhibited those who had doubts about abrogation from pursuing their ideas or expressing their opinions.

Al-Jabri talks about the flip side of this on page 108 of his book. He says that the subject of abrogation has been covered in the literature like no other, and postulates that some writers were seeking fame and reputation by entering this arena with more abrogation claims, in order to gain favor with the masses as followers and upholders of the scholarly heritage of the earlier Muslim scholars.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2010, 00:08 
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On page 111 of his book, Al-Jabri briefly discusses the Shia view of abrogation. They believe that the text of the Quran is free of abrogated verses, which agrees with the thesis of this project. However, they believe that the text is not complete, and that there are significant parts of the Quran that are missing. The major point of departure with Sunnis in this context is that the Shia believe that the alleged missing parts were not abrogated or caused to be forgotten (the type of abrogation where the text is gone by divine decree), but rather that they were left out deliberately by Sunnis, so these parts would still belong to the Quran even if we don't have them. Al-Jabri argues that although this clearly violates the verse


the Shia response is that the Quran is preserved with their Imams. The purpose of this post is to state these views for the sake of completeness.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2010, 05:02 
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About the attacks on anti-abrogation scholars

Al-Jabri addresses the attacks on anti-abrogation scholars in a number of spots in his book, as he obviously was on the receiving end of some of it. It is worth noting that Al-Jabri is not only anti-abrogation-doctrine, but anti-abrogation of any form within the religion, period, so the attacks against him may be colored by this fact. Anyway, one reaction from Al-Jabri that is worth noting is on page 117, where he challenges the authority of the Origins of Fiqh (أصول الفقه) by saying that it is what scholars created by themselves for themselves as rules for research and understanding, and enabled them and enabled others to slander those who say that there is nothing abrogated in the Quran.

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 29 Apr 2010, 20:58 
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Some Anti-Abrogation Scholars

Al-Jabri lists some anti-abrogation scholars on page 128 of his book. He only lists Al-Asfahani and a follower of his, Al-Fakhr Al-Razi, from the old era, then jumps directly to scholars who were affected (according to him) by the first edition of his book, and those who are contemporaries of his (he does not mention Muhammad Abduh for example). The names are:

  • Ahmad Hasan Al-Baqoury
  • Abdul-Razzaq Noufal
  • Muhammad Al-Ghazali Al-Saqqa (I assume that's Sheikh Al-Ghazali)
  • Abdullah Al-Alayli (from Lebanon)

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 Post subject: Re: Scholars opinions about abrogation
PostPosted: 30 Apr 2010, 00:58 
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Pragmatic wrote:
Opinion of Imam Al-Shafeiy

We know that the great Imam Al-Shafeiy "الشافعي" was pro-abrogation.

Al-Jabri mentions on page 140 of his book the view of the Shafeiy school (he does not quote Imam Shafeiy directly) about the authority of Sahaba narrations in determining abrogated verses. Here is the translation of what Al-Jabri says:

The Shafeiya said: Abrogation is not proved by a Sahabi saying "The ruling was such and such then it was abrogated" because of the possibility that what was said comes from analysis by the Sahabi, not originating from the Prophet (PBUH)"

Al-Jabri goes on to say that the Hanafi school disagrees with that view.

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