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 Post subject: Which Verses?
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2010, 07:30 
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Important Abrogation Claims:

The following is a list of the important abrogation claims that we need to refute in our writeup. The order is approximately of descending importance/difficulty (please edit to add, delete, or reorder). What makes a case important is the merit as an abrogation claim, or the appearance of merit, or the fame in being often cited. After the main ordered list, we have a secondary list of cases that are borderline important, and may or may not be included in our writeup.

The Main List

  1. Private consultation: 58:13/58:12
  2. Steadfastness: 8:66/8:65
  3. Night prayer: 73:20/73:1-4
  4. The widows: 2:234/2:240
  5. God-fearing: 64:16/3:102
  6. The sword/jizya/tolerance: 9:5
  7. Intoxicants: 5:90/4:43
  8. Fornication penalty: 24:2/4:15-16
  9. Fasting licenses: 2:185/2:184
  10. Fate of non-Muslims: 2:62/3:552

The Secondary List


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Original Post (edited to include the above lists in the OP):

I made progress in finding out the list of potentially abrogated verses. In an earlier post, the total number was said to be 21. The following confirms the number 21 and proposes that 5 of them are strong cases. Mansukh means abrogated and nasikh means abrogating.
Quote:
Shah Waliullah (d. 1759) the great Muslim scholar from India only retained the following 5 out of Suyuti's 21 cases as genuine:
  • Mansukh 2:180 -- nasikh 4:11,12.
  • Mansukh 2:240 -- nasikh 2:234.
  • Mansukh 8:65 -- nasikh 8:66.
  • Mansukh 33:50 -- nasikh 33:52.
  • Mansukh 58:12 -- nasikh 58:13.

He is known in the Arabic literature as Ad-Dahlawi.

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 Post subject: Re: Which Verses?
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2010, 15:47 
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Thanks, Pragmatic.

If you have Suyuti's list, please enter it here. We already discussed the following additional cases thus far,

Mansukh 2:219, 4:43 -- nasikh 5:90
Mansukh 2:62 -- nasikh 3:85
Mansukh 2:115 -- nasikh 2:144
Mansukh 4:15 -- nasikh 24:2
Mansukh 17:24 -- nasikh 9:113
Mansukh 73:1-4 -- nasikh 73:20

So, there are ten more to examine.

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 Post subject: Re: Which Verses?
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2010, 19:17 
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In my previous attempt, I could not accumulate the complete list based on information available online (much of it is misinformation by anti-Islam sites disguised as Islamic sites), so one has to get hold of an old printed book to get this right.

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 Post subject: Re: Which Verses?
PostPosted: 07 Jan 2010, 04:35 
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Turns out that Suyuti is as I suspected Jalaluddeen Assuyuti, one of the two writers of Tafseer Al-Jalalayn. He was Egyptian from Asyoot who lived about 500 years ago. One of his many books is the landmark book, "Al-Itqaan fi Uloom Al-Qur'aan". I suspect the list is in that book. I found the book and downloaded it and already found one additional abrogation case: 3:102 is said to have been abrogated by 64:16.

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 Post subject: Re: Which Verses?
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2010, 07:20 
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As of this posting, we have 23 individual threads covering 24 verses who have some argument that they were abrogated and a counterargument. Do these already cover all 21 verses of the majority opinion quoted by Suyuti and the additional verse he added?

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 Post subject: Re: Which Verses?
PostPosted: 11 Jan 2010, 16:07 
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Pragmatic wrote:
As of this posting, we have 23 individual threads covering 24 verses who have some argument that they were abrogated and a counterargument. Do these already cover all 21 verses of the majority opinion quoted by Suyuti and the additional verse he added?

Not yet. He mentioned two verses that are claimed abrogated, the "permission verse" (24:59) and the "division verse" (4:8), but he did not say which verses are claimed to be the abrogating verses. He also mentioned Ibn Al-Arabi's assertion that the "sword verse" (9:5) abrogated 124 verses, but that itself was abrogated by the "Jizya verse." (9:29)

I'll continue to look for more details on those and you kindly do the same.

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 Post subject: Re: Which Verses?
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2010, 06:04 
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Similar to my post in the "Scholars Opinions" thread, It will be useful to list the names of the scholars who are for and the scholars who are against the thesis that a particular verse was abrogated. I found it difficult to pin down this basic information, as most references just say "a majority" or "a minority" without stating who. Some of the weaker cases of abrogation may shed light on the credibility (or at least the way of thinking) of some of the scholars and may affect the analysis of other verses in which they expressed an opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Which Verses?
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2010, 16:44 
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Pragmatic wrote:
Similar to my post in the "Scholars Opinions" thread, It will be useful to list the names of the scholars who are for and the scholars who are against the thesis that a particular verse was abrogated. I found it difficult to pin down this basic information, as most references just say "a majority" or "a minority" without stating who. Some of the weaker cases of abrogation may shed light on the credibility (or at least the way of thinking) of some of the scholars and may affect the analysis of other verses in which they expressed an opinion.

Good point and worth pursuing, but as you stated may be quite difficult.

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 Post subject: Re: Which Verses?
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2010, 19:08 
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This post identified some scholars who considered certain verses abrogated. The relevant part is quoted below

Linguistic wrote:
We also learn the names of some of the scholars who took the position that the Jizya verse, 9:29 abrogated 2:109. They are, according to Ibn Al-Jawzi: Ibn `Abbaas, Ibn Mas`ood, Qataada, and Abul-`Aaliya.

And those who took the position that the sword verse, 9:5, abrogated 2:109 include: Qataada.

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 Post subject: Re: Which Verses?
PostPosted: 02 Feb 2010, 05:24 
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As-Suyooti settled on 20 cases, listed in this post. They are:

Abrogating/Abrogated
2:144/2:115
4:11-12/2:180
2:185/2:184
2:187/2:183
9:5,9:36/2:217
2:234/2:240
2:286/2:284
64:16/3:102
8:75,33:6/4:33
24:2/4:15
9:5/5:2
5:49/5:42
65:2/5:106
8:66/8:65
9:122/9:41
24:32/24:3
33:50/33:52
58:13/58:12
9:5/60:11
73:20/73:1-4

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